D&D 5E Justin Alexander's review of Shattered Obelisk is pretty scathing

[nevin]

Don't. Not every release is meant to be for every potential D&D customer.

And yet far too many DND customer's who didn't get something new and shiny will post about how it holds up to past editions, are there any new nuggets for old timer's etc. A little effort turns those guys into good advertising instead of bad advertising. ( at least most of them. some are never happy)

 

[mamba]

Don't. Not every release is meant to be for every potential D&D customer.

absolutely, but there being no new content makes that clear and does not have some feeling like they are missing out, while 50% new content is the worst of both worlds

 

[LordEntrails]

He made a third blog post on the topic. The conversation moves on. Justin chose the focus, ask him.

I do not see the true focus of his posts about map keys. But let's take a summary of his specific complaints:

1. Plot hooks are generic mush
2. No development of relations with factions
3. Initial encounter is made harder threatening a TPK
4. Foreshadowing of the mind flayer plot is weak and a flat out failure
5. Marketing Hype is completely inaccurate
   (that is all part 1, absolutely nothing about map keys)
6. The "Core Failure" is that the campaign is a race against the mind flayers to obtain fragments is pre-ordained with little the players can impact (railroad, my word). What they can impact is random and non-sensical.
7. Logical fallacies: super high INT creature is stupid, consequences of party failures are pointless, living creatures trapped for decades in room with no food, NPCs with no way to get to where they are,
8. Finale is a dud
9. Maps that don't match the text
10. Not all maps are keyed/numbered
11. Poor Design - continuity errors, NPCs with incoherent backstories and incomprehensible motivations, timeline contradictions,
12. Player handout (poster map) with secret locations
13. Player handout with (shard locations) that is just wrong
14. Cool lore for DMs only
15. Player handout (story tracker) with spoilers and no instructions on use (not obvious to reviewer)

And yes, he wrote an addendum about unkeyed dungeons and why he said what he said. Seems that since the internet has blown up about one of his approximately 15 complaints, he taken the time to explain in detail what threads like this are complaining about.

How about we talk about the other 14? Or are they not interesting because we all agree with them?

 

[darjr]

@LordEntrails
Again. He changed the subject. Ask him.

 

[Mannahnin]

@LordEntrails
Again. He changed the subject. Ask him.

He certainly didn't change the subject in this thread. He's not posting here.

 

[darjr]

He certainly didn't change the subject in this thread. He's not posting here.

So? He can’t. Someone else posted it here.

You don’t think he was in part responding to this thread?

 

[Mannahnin]

I do not see the true focus of his posts about map keys. But let's take a summary of his specific complaints:

1. Plot hooks are generic mush
2. No development of relations with factions
3. Initial encounter is made harder threatening a TPK
4. Foreshadowing of the mind flayer plot is weak and a flat out failure
5. Marketing Hype is completely inaccurate
   (that is all part 1, absolutely nothing about map keys)
6. The "Core Failure" is that the campaign is a race against the mind flayers to obtain fragments is pre-ordained with little the players can impact (railroad, my word). What they can impact is random and non-sensical.
7. Logical fallacies: super high INT creature is stupid, consequences of party failures are pointless, living creatures trapped for decades in room with no food, NPCs with no way to get to where they are,
8. Finale is a dud
9. Maps that don't match the text
10. Not all maps are keyed/numbered
11. Poor Design - continuity errors, NPCs with incoherent backstories and incomprehensible motivations, timeline contradictions,
12. Player handout (poster map) with secret locations
13. Player handout with (shard locations) that is just wrong
14. Cool lore for DMs only
15. Player handout (story tracker) with spoilers and no instructions on use (not obvious to reviewer)

And yes, he wrote an addendum about unkeyed dungeons and why he said what he said. Seems that since the internet has blown up about one of his approximately 15 complaints, he taken the time to explain in detail what threads like this are complaining about.

How about we talk about the other 14? Or are they not interesting because we all agree with them?

So? He can’t. Someone else posted it here.

You don’t think he was in part responding to this thread?

I'm not particularly fussed about the map labeling thing. We've trodden that ground fully at this point. People provided text examples and map images.

If we want to bother discussing the book further in this thread and whether any criticism of it is merited, presumably some of his other complaints would be logical things to discuss next.

 

[darjr]

I'm not particularly fussed about the map labeling thing. We've trodden that ground fully at this point. People provided text examples and map images.

If we want to bother discussing the book further in this thread and whether any criticism of it is merited, presumably some of his other complaints would be logical things to discuss next.

Well stop tagging me about it.

It’ll go some way towards your goal.

 

[Scribe]

Not sure what you're talking about?

Hes talking about 4e, and the road to recovery that was the 'apology' and apology edition of 5e.

 

[Mannahnin]

I do not see the true focus of his posts about map keys. But let's take a summary of his specific complaints:

1. Plot hooks are generic mush
2. No development of relations with factions
3. Initial encounter is made harder threatening a TPK
4. Foreshadowing of the mind flayer plot is weak and a flat out failure
5. Marketing Hype is completely inaccurate
   (that is all part 1, absolutely nothing about map keys)
6. The "Core Failure" is that the campaign is a race against the mind flayers to obtain fragments is pre-ordained with little the players can impact (railroad, my word). What they can impact is random and non-sensical.
7. Logical fallacies: super high INT creature is stupid, consequences of party failures are pointless, living creatures trapped for decades in room with no food, NPCs with no way to get to where they are,
8. Finale is a dud
9. Maps that don't match the text
10. Not all maps are keyed/numbered
11. Poor Design - continuity errors, NPCs with incoherent backstories and incomprehensible motivations, timeline contradictions,
12. Player handout (poster map) with secret locations
13. Player handout with (shard locations) that is just wrong
14. Cool lore for DMs only
15. Player handout (story tracker) with spoilers and no instructions on use (not obvious to reviewer)

And yes, he wrote an addendum about unkeyed dungeons and why he said what he said. Seems that since the internet has blown up about one of his approximately 15 complaints, he taken the time to explain in detail what threads like this are complaining about.

How about we talk about the other 14? Or are they not interesting because we all agree with them?

Echoed.

10. is covered. We can move on.

Does anyone want to talk about the other stuff?

Some of 7 seems like it was wrong (the hydra does have access to the outside world and thus food via an underground water channel), other stuff like whether the NPCs can get to their locations I don't remember seeing confirmed or denied by other readers.

3, 9, 11, 12, 13 and 15 seem like they're going to be real problems for DMs if they're accurate.