D&D 5E Justin Alexander's review of Shattered Obelisk is pretty scathing

[Reef]

And new players are the only ones that matter, right? Sometimes I feel like WotC actively wants the rest of us to go away.

As someone who has been playing for 40+ years, I certainly don't feel like they want me to go away. I've enjoyed 5e immensely and am looking forward to the new 2024 Core.

I'm sorry you're feeling under-serviced. But there's no evidence they are hoping all us original players hurry up and die. They're happy to keep selling to us. But they'd be beyond foolish not to be targeting new gamers. Because like it or not, my generation is on its way to dying off...

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

Because like it or not, my generation is on its way to dying off...

For business purposes, people my age are already dead, and getting bleepy about it on a website isn't going to change that.

 

[Mort]

There are always exceptions. But which of us is that? We don't know, and neither do WotC. All we know is that their focus is in anyone who knows nothing of D&D from before 2014. And, whether or not you personally like what they're selling now, that leaves a lot of folks here and elsewhere in the community in the cold.

There is a HUGE difference between things not being cannon prior to 2014 and WotC only focusing on "anyone who knows nothing of D&D from before 2014." and I would maintain the latter is just plain false. Just the fact that they put out Plansescape and it is SO reverant to the original shows it's false.

Much of the stuff they put out is VERY geared towards older gamers (Saltmarsh, Tales from the Yawning Portal etc.) and other stuff tends to be absolutely filled with easter eggs, callbacks for those that appreciate them.

The funny thing is the supplement for this thread (Shattered Obelisk) is so far the only main adventure I haven't bought - no interest in it (and this thread isn't helping). But that too, is the point, I can leave out stuff I don't want and still enjoy the system.

You don't have to like everything they put out, not everything is for everyone. But I just don't get this "WoTC hates us.." schtick.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There is a HUGE difference between things not being cannon prior to 2014 and WotC only focusing on "anyone who knows nothing of D&D from before 2014." and I would maintain the latter is just plain false. Just the fact that they put out Plansescape and it is SO reverant to the original shows it's false.

Much of the stuff they put out is VERY geared towards older gamers (Saltmarsh, Tales from the Yawning Portal etc.) and other stuff tends to be absolutely filled with easter eggs, callbacks for those that appreciate them.

The funny thing is the supplement for this thread (Shattered Obelisk) is so far the only main adventure I haven't bought - no interest in it (and this thread isn't helping). But that too, is the point, I can leave out stuff I don't want and still enjoy the system.

You don't have to like everything they put out, not everything is for everyone. But I just don't get this "WoTC hates us.." schtick.

I didn't say they hate us. I said they don't care about us. Wotc is sitting on a mountain of old IP they can mine to do anything they want with. Way easier I guess then inventing new stuff, and proven to sell at some point, so why not? The people making the product may or may not want to design quality art that harkens back to their own younger days. The people they work for just care about money, and believe, rightly or wrongly, that they should be targeting newbies and not the people who helped them be as a successful as they are today.

 

[Mort]

I didn't say they hate us. I said they don't care about us. Wotc is sitting on a mountain of old IP they can mine to do anything they want with. Way easier I guess then inventing new stuff, and proven to sell at some point, so why not? The people making the product may or may not want to design quality art that harkens back to their own younger days. The people they work for just care about money, and believe, rightly or wrongly, that they should be targeting newbies and not the people who helped them be as a successful as they are today.

Please explain how putting out a 5e Planescape supplement setting that is VERY faithful to the old one, but with new things added (such as a new adventure etc.) is "only targeting newbies...?"

Please explain how much of 5e is distinct call back to the 2e/3e rules (quite often angering players who prefer more modern approaches such as those espoused by Powered by the Apocalypse) expressly for the benefit of those very players.

Of course WoTC is in it to make money, but I still maintain most of your premise is false.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Please explain how putting out a 5e Planescape supplement setting that is VERY faithful to the old one, but with new things added (such as a new adventure etc.) is "only targeting newbies...?"

Please explain how much of 5e is distinct call back to the 2e/3e rules (quite often angering players who prefer more modern approaches such as those espoused by Powered by the Apocalypse) expressly for the benefit of those very players.

Of course WoTC is in it to make money, but I still maintain most of your premise is false.

The people who made Planescape 5e clearly wanted to harken back to the older stuff, which is great. Doing so didn't mess with the profit agenda, so they went with it. Nowadays this is uncommon from WotC, but welcome.

Back in 2014, WotC wasn't explicitly looking to make the most profit off the brand by any means necessary like today. They wanted an iconic version of the game in the wake of 4e's failure to run out the clock. To that end, 5e was conceived as being largely traditional. And that's the game all the newbies they're counting fell in love with, so they can't change it too much now without risking the golden goose.

 

[TheSword]

There are always exceptions. But which of us is that? We don't know, and neither do WotC. All we know is that their focus is in anyone who knows nothing of D&D from before 2014. And, whether or not you personally like what they're selling now, that leaves a lot of folks here and elsewhere in the community in the cold.

If you set the bar of entry too high then folks can’t meet it fail. If you set the bar lower they get to succeed and you get to jump as high over it as you like. No one is stopping you jumping as high as you like. If you’re an experienced GM you’re experienced enough to change a room description.

Making products in the core line that require more expertise to use makes zero business sense and would be rightly criticized for excluding people.

It’s much better that third parties service that kind of need.

 

[TheSword]

The people who made Planescape 5e clearly wanted to harken back to the older stuff, which is great. Doing so didn't mess with the profit agenda, so they went with it. Nowadays this is uncommon from WotC, but welcome.

Back in 2014, WotC wasn't explicitly looking to make the most profit off the brand by any means necessary like today. They wanted an iconic version of the game in the wake of 4e's failure to run out the clock. To that end, 5e was conceived as being largely traditional. And that's the game all the newbies they're counting fell in love with, so they can't change it too much now without risking the golden goose.

It’s not by ‘any means necessary’. It’s by following a proven business strategy that they believe grows the hobby and the profits. They clearly have a working vision for brand and they’re sticking to it.

… thank god.

 

[Mort]

The people who made Planescape 5e clearly wanted to harken back to the older stuff, which is great. Doing so didn't mess with the profit agenda, so they went with it. Nowadays this is uncommon from WotC, but welcome.

Back in 2014, WotC wasn't explicitly looking to make the most profit off the brand by any means necessary like today. They wanted an iconic version of the game in the wake of 4e's failure to run out the clock. To that end, 5e was conceived as being largely traditional. And that's the game all the newbies they're counting fell in love with, so they can't change it too much now without risking the golden goose.

That's a weirdly pessimistic way of saying they have a clear monetary incentive to cater to old grognards like me.

 

[hawkeyefan]

The people who made Planescape 5e clearly wanted to harken back to the older stuff, which is great. Doing so didn't mess with the profit agenda, so they went with it. Nowadays this is uncommon from WotC, but welcome.

Back in 2014, WotC wasn't explicitly looking to make the most profit off the brand by any means necessary like today. They wanted an iconic version of the game in the wake of 4e's failure to run out the clock. To that end, 5e was conceived as being largely traditional. And that's the game all the newbies they're counting fell in love with, so they can't change it too much now without risking the golden goose.

But what is it you feel you need from WotC? What could they make that would make you happy as a consumer?

I mean, almost all of the old stuff is available digitally. I ran plenty of 5e in Sigil and the planes before they ever released the new Planescape set. I just used old stuff that I had (mostly Faces of Sigil).

Most of us who have been playing for decades don’t need as many products as WotC will produce. Plus, there are all kinds of third party products that can fill any gaps in their line.

So what is it you want to see them do?