D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Spell Discussion

[Minigiant]

CONJURE ANIMALS
Level 3 Conjuration (Druid, Ranger)
Casting Time: Action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes

You summon nature spirits that take the form of a Large swarm of spectral animals in an unoccupied space that you can see within range.
The swarm lasts for the duration, and you choose the animal form of the spirits, such as wolves, serpents, or birds.​

At the start of each of your turns, you may give the swarm a command that it obeys if it is within range,

Fetch: You describe a specific kind of plant, rock, metal, or item worth less than 10 gp and weighing less than 100 lbs. The swarm disappears and returns in 1 minute. When they return, it drops it at your feet if that object was within 5 miles and not in the possession of any creature.

Hunt: You describe a specific kind of plant or creature that was within the area during the last 24 hours. The swarm disappears and returns in 1 minute. When they return. you learn the direction and distance to that plant or creature if within 5 miles..

Maul: You can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 10 feet of the swarm. On a hit, the target takes Slashing or Poison damage (your choice) equal to 2d10 plus your spellcasting ability modifier.

Watch: You can use your action to see through the swarm’s eyes and hear what it hears, and continue to do so until you use your action to return to your normal senses.

When you Move on your turn, you can also move the swarm up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.

 

[Maxperson]

No you need to be a descendant of a wizard. It's a major aspect of the universe. The insult of a Mudblood is bringing up that you acestor dirtied up their bloodied by getting with Muggles.

Wizard families not having non-casting children, squig or squibs or something,is due to them not having pure wizard blood.

Not that it matters. The potential for magic =/= sorcerer. Until you can show that the Potterverse wizards learned lots of spells without ever reading a book or being taught, you cannot possibly succeed at showing that they are like D&D sorcerers.

I don't think that's true. The most common story for wild mages is you don't know what the heck you are doing and have to learn one wildsurge at a time or some arcanist teaches to control you powers.

Not according to the Tome of Magic which introduced the class.

"One of the newest discoveries from the great lands of the Forgotten Realms is wild magic. Originally considered little more than the unfortunate by-product of an epic struggle among the gods of that world, the strange effects of the wild lands (as those areas affected by wild magic are known) have attracted the attention of many a curious or scholarly wizard."

"In general, two types of wizards are drawn to these strange areas. The first are the researchers: wizards devoted to the study of the theoretical underpinnings of magic. For them, the wild areas expose long-hidden secrets of the magical universe and give new insights into how magical energy functions. From their work have evolved the beginnings of a theory of random magic--one that defies the traditional schools."

"The second type of wizard drawn to the wild lands is far less rigorous and methodical. These spellcasters are attracted by the sheer randomness and uncertainty of the wild lands. Such mages seek to incorporate wild magic into their spells by combining traditional magic with the new theories of random magic, throwing in a dose of their own chaotic natures as an extra measure. These wizards are the true wild mages who have been seen recently in various lands."

Nothing there indicates that it cam intuitively or learning one wildsurge at a time. They used research and theories to incorporate wild magic into their spells.

 

[Minigiant]

Not that it matters. The potential for magic =/= sorcerer. Until you can show that the Potterverse wizards learned lots of spells without ever reading a book or being taught, you cannot possibly succeed at showing that they are like D&D sorcerers.

Not according to the Tome of Magic which introduced the class.

"One of the newest discoveries from the great lands of the Forgotten Realms is wild magic. Originally considered little more than the unfortunate by-product of an epic struggle among the gods of that world, the strange effects of the wild lands (as those areas affected by wild magic are known) have attracted the attention of many a curious or scholarly wizard."

"In general, two types of wizards are drawn to these strange areas. The first are the researchers: wizards devoted to the study of the theoretical underpinnings of magic. For them, the wild areas expose long-hidden secrets of the magical universe and give new insights into how magical energy functions. From their work have evolved the beginnings of a theory of random magic--one that defies the traditional schools."

"The second type of wizard drawn to the wild lands is far less rigorous and methodical. These spellcasters are attracted by the sheer randomness and uncertainty of the wild lands. Such mages seek to incorporate wild magic into their spells by combining traditional magic with the new theories of random magic, throwing in a dose of their own chaotic natures as an extra measure. These wizards are the true wild mages who have been seen recently in various lands."

Nothing there indicates that it cam intuitively or learning one wildsurge at a time. They used research and theories to incorporate wild magic into their spells.

It's not potential for magic =/= sorcerer.

It's "you have this arcane magic because of your origin" = sorcerer

Harry Potter can cast spells because his mother and father both can and their parents can.
In D&D, that's sorcery.
The bad henchmen follow the main bad guy because they don't think wizards should marry nonwizards and give the muggles the ability to birth casters.

Harry Potter is a world where sorcerers can roll to cast spells from the unified arcane spell list. A 3e sorcerer but you have to roll every time like some brutal grimdark RPG.

 

[James Gasik]

Hermione has magic blood. Just not from her parent and I think grandparents.

In the potterverse, you have to be a descendant of a wizard to be a wizard.

If you have to be descended from a Wizard to be a Wizard....who was the first Wizard?

 

[Vaalingrade]

CONJURE ANIMALS
Level 3 Conjuration (Druid, Ranger)
Casting Time: Action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes

You summon nature spirits that take the form of a Large swarm of spectral animals in an unoccupied space that you can see within range.
The swarm lasts for the duration, and you choose the animal form of the spirits, such as wolves, serpents, or birds.​

At the start of each of your turns, you may give the swarm a command that it obeys if it is within range,

Fetch: You describe a specific kind of plant, rock, metal, or item worth less than 10 gp and weighing less than 100 lbs. The swarm disappears and returns in 1 minute. When they return, it drops it at your feet if that object was within 5 miles and not in the possession of any creature.

Hunt: You describe a specific kind of plant or creature that was within the area during the last 24 hours. The swarm disappears and returns in 1 minute. When they return. you learn the direction and distance to that plant or creature if within 5 miles..

Maul: You can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 10 feet of the swarm. On a hit, the target takes Slashing or Poison damage (your choice) equal to 2d10 plus your spellcasting ability modifier.

Watch: You can use your action to see through the swarm’s eyes and hear what it hears, and continue to do so until you use your action to return to your normal senses.

When you Move on your turn, you can also move the swarm up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.

Now there's a conjured animal!

 

[Yaarel]

According to Rowling, the wand is exactly a focus to help control ones own innate magic. Otherwise, the "unfocused and uncontrolled magic without a wand" is emotional, wild, unpredictable, and dangerous.

Generally, wizards have innate magic, and muggles dont. However there are "exceptions". Wizard-born children who lack innate magic are known as "squibs", and − relevant here − muggle individuals who do exhibit innate magic are known as "muggle-born".

It is possible for wizards and muggles to reproduce children together. However, there are pure muggles who exhibit magic.

 

[Maxperson]

It's not potential for magic =/= sorcerer.

It's "you have this arcane magic because of your origin" = sorcerer

No. It's, "I can cast these spells without ever having been taught or reading a book. The knowledge of the words, gestures and components comes to me intuitively."

Harry Potter can cast spells because his mother and father both can and their parents can.
In D&D, that's sorcery.

No it isn't.

"Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces. One can't study sorcery as one learns a language, any more than one can learn to live a legendary life. No one chooses sorcery; the power chooses the sorcerer."

So they can't learn like the Potterverse folks do. At SCHOOLS. In BOOKS. Being TAUGHT by others. Without charisma mattering.

 

[Yaarel]

It's, "I can cast these spells without ever having been taught or reading a book. The knowledge of the words, gestures and components comes to me intuitively."

The D&D Sorcerer is more like ... "I make up own words and wiggles, and magic happens."

Even for the D&D Wizard, magic voicing and gestures are unique to each Wizard.

 

[Maxperson]

The D&D Sorcerer is more like ... "I make up own words and wiggles, and magic happens."

Sure, which is polar opposite to Potterverse where they don't make anything up and learn from books and teachers. By the way, the words they "make up" and wiggles that they "make up" are identical to wizards. That's why arcana can tell someone what is being cast.

Which means they get the same magic, but it comes to them intuitively.

Even for the D&D Wizard, magic voicing and gestures are unique to each Wizard.

This is wrong. If an apprentice gets every spell from his master, it's all going to be identical. There will be lots of duplication in voice, gestures, etc.

 

[Minigiant]

No it isn't.

"Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces. One can't study sorcery as one learns a language, any more than one can learn to live a legendary life. No one chooses sorcery; the power chooses the sorcerer."

So they can't learn like the Potterverse folks do. At SCHOOLS. In BOOKS. Being TAUGHT by others. Without charisma mattering.

That's why I said Potterverse wizards and wizards in most fantasy worlds would be sorcerers of a special bloodline where it works like a wizards.

You are fully tapped in to the Weave but every Arcane Bloodline sorcerer is too personal to be studied. Learn spells like a wizard but cast them like sorcerers.

I mean D&D litterally has a magic school setting that admits sorcerers. If sorcerers cannot learn or be taught, why would any go to Strixhaven?