D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[Stalker0]

It occurred to me when running the numbers in my head that the very high level monk probably becomes the best tank, which does seem to step on a few toes. Seems like odd design. That's all.

I think the difference before was, the monk was already technically a better tank than a barbarian at such high levels, but did so much less damage no one cared. But now that the monk has more comparable damage suddenly that tanking + offense is a brand new ballgame.

 

[mellored]

I just realized the monk's deflect attack may be stronger than the dev's intended. The flavor suggests you deflecting the attack to another creature, but that is not required. You can simply deflect the attack into the original monster. The only requirement is "a creature within 5 feet". Nothing says it has to be a different creature.

Have a familiar throw a rock at you.
Deflect it.
Deal 2d12+5 damage to any creature within 60'.

Not worth wasting your reaction in most cases, but kind of fun.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I think the difference before was, the monk was already technically a better tank than a barbarian at such high levels, but did so much less damage no one cared. But now that the monk has more comparable damage suddenly that tanking + offense is a brand new ballgame.

I think it's going to be hard to properly evaluate that ballgame at the moment since a large part of the damage gap the monk has always experienced in play is a result of a dearth of magic item (or feat) support for unarmed combat.

Until we have a better idea of what that might look like, I think it'll be hard to draw a ton of conclusions for "real-world" offense beyond that the monk can probably expect to do better than before.

Thus far, the feat support still seems pretty light, but maybe there's stuff I've missed.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The post I was responding to talked about using dodge as an action with flurry as a bonus for 3 attacks (2024 monk), versus previously making 2 attacks with your action and dodge as a bonus action (2014 monk). Aka dealing good offense while maintain an amazing defense with high AC + dodge.

so it is 2 vs 3, an indeed a 50% increase.

Sorry. Lost track.

But the 2014 monk did not have to dodge, because they could go invis...

 

[Stalker0]

But the 2014 monk did not have to dodge, because they could go invis...

At the cost of a precious action, which in 2014 terms meant they couldn't use flurry of blows either.

The 2024 monk requires no action to activate their resistance power. Anything that is free action wise is a big deal in high level play.

 

[Asisreo]

At the cost of a precious action, which in 2014 terms meant they couldn't use flurry of blows either.

The 2024 monk requires no action to activate their resistance power. Anything that is free action wise is a big deal in high level play.

Eh, I think its fair to say that, unless they got ambushed, they would have done it before combat starts.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Have a familiar throw a rock at you.
Deflect it.
Deal 2d12+5 damage to any creature within 60'.

Not worth wasting your reaction in most cases, but kind of fun.

I think it's more fun the idea of a Monk grabbing a bullet mid-air fired from a Musket and throwing the bullet back at the shooter. It's something that's happens a lot in Wuxia movies.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

At the cost of a precious action, which in 2014 terms meant they couldn't use flurry of blows either.

The 2024 monk requires no action to activate their resistance power. Anything that is free action wise is a big deal in high level play.

Correct. One action at the start of combat. Due to the rules that you can only unarmed strike or flurry when you take an attack action, your whole offensive round. But you can activate dodge. And then you have 4 attacks woth advantage. I by no means say it is better than 2024, but it is not that bad. Or actually quite good.

 

[Gammadoodler]

At the cost of a precious action, which in 2014 terms meant they couldn't use flurry of blows either.

The 2024 monk requires no action to activate their resistance power. Anything that is free action wise is a big deal in high level play.

Potentially.

There's no requirement for a monk to have been in initiative to cast it, it lasts for 10 rounds, and invisibility is useful enough in exploration to be worth considering even if you aren't looking to pick a fight. Whether you would have lost a combat round worth of actions depends quite a bit on how the party approaches encounters and how long they last.

The new version absolutely is better in terms of action economy. How significant the difference is will see quite a bit of table variation.

For more circumspect players/parties, unless the encounters run up to 10 rounds on the regular, I think the action economy difference will be significantly less noticeable than for the "kick down the door" crowd.

 

[Gammadoodler]

It's also worth noting that the 5e PHB monk, with multiple chances to land a stun, had more potential to drop a monster's total DPR to zero for a round and set them up for some biiig incoming damage from all attacks coming in at advantage and a bunch of auto-failed dex saves..and all that with a chance to chain that effect round over round. The ki burn rate to do it meant it was unsustainable for more than a couple rounds, but I'd submit that it was a far more significant damage enabler than pretty much anything in the UA monk's kit.