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D&D (2024) New Unearthed Arcana Playtest Includes Barbarian, Druid, and Monk

New barbarian, druid, and monk versions, plus spells and weapons, and a revised Ability Score Improvement feat.

The latest Unearthed Arcana playtest packet is now live with new barbarian, druid, and monk versions, as well as new spells and weapons, and a revised Ability Score Improvement feat.



WHATS INSIDE

Here are the new and revised elements in this article:

Classes. Three classes are here: Barbarian, Druid, and Monk. Each one includes one subclass: Path of the World Tree (Barbarian), Circle of the Moon (Druid), and Warrior of the Hand (Monk).

Spells. New and revised spells are included.

The following sections were introduced in a previous article and are provided here for reference:

Weapons. Weapon revisions are included.

Feats. This includes a revised version of Ability Score Improvement.

Rules Glossary. The rules glossary includes the few rules that have revised definitions in the playtest. In this document, any underlined term in the body text appears in the glossary.
 

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Pauln6

Hero
Still not talking about the feat. The feat gives an equal boost to anyone; it has no bearing upon what I'm discussing.

I'm talking about how both Athletics and Acrobatics (but mostly Acrobatics) leave you weirdly incompetent in maneuvers you should be world-class in. As if taking both was reasonable, which it isn't, since taking points in an ability that duplicates your offense is a waste.

Since the alternative is to just live with the weird gaps in your capability which would be a nagging irritant at best; the obvious and easy patch is to allow both Athletics and Acrobatics to function as your "heroic movement" skill!
While I can see why you are frustrated by the current set-up, and I agree that my players do get frustrated that one skill doesn't cover everything, I'm not 100% convinced. You seem to be assuming that this particular fantasy trope didn't invest in strength, dexterity, and both skills purely because it uses up resources that could be spent elsewhere and you would also like to spend those resources elsewhere. I get that, and the thief-acrobat is one classic subclass that I wish had been included in the rules. Without a subclass, I just think that covering those bases is more appropriate with a specialist feat. An Olympic gymnast isn't an Olympic long jumper but then neither are they an Olympic wrestler. Athletes spend a lot of resources specialising and feats can cover that. It's more of an issue that the feats don't cover it. It's as if they avoided it to preserve space for the acrobat subclass and then didn't follow through.
 

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Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
The assumption that the problem is deeper is what I dispute.
"Deeper" means other mechanics depend on it.

In 5e 2014, the deepest mechanics are the d20, the six abilities, and the Proficiency bonus. If there is a problem with any of these, it affects everything.

The problems with the six abilities affect everything.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
See. I say the imbalance does not only bother me, I say there is not as big of an imbalance as you make it out to be. See, it is you who does not get what I say, not vice versa.

I know the imbalance doesn't bother you. I've never claimed otherwise. I do disagree with you that the imbalance is not as severe as I think it is. That isn't not listening to you, that is disagreeing with you. And yes, when you present evidence... I look at that evidence and comment on it. I even disagree with it. That is called a discussion. This isn't a "I speak, you listen" scenario. Disagreements are settled by discussing them, and presenting and dissecting evidence. Not simply declaring victory because your perspective is different than the person with whom you disagree.
 

I know the imbalance doesn't bother you. I've never claimed otherwise. I do disagree with you that the imbalance is not as severe as I think it is. That isn't not listening to you, that is disagreeing with you. And yes, when you present evidence... I look at that evidence and comment on it. I even disagree with it. That is called a discussion. This isn't a "I speak, you listen" scenario. Disagreements are settled by discussing them, and presenting and dissecting evidence. Not simply declaring victory because your perspective is different than the person with whom you disagree.
If you think so... I don't think you are discussing. You don't dissect evidence, you are brushing it away.

I think your assumption that one stat needs to be universally better than the other is flawed. I say both stats have advantages in different situations. I say, both stats speak to different fantasies.

You say, wanting to be the strong guy is badwrongfun. You say, in your games, strength has no value, because reasons. So what should we discuss?
 
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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
"Deeper" means other mechanics depend on it.

In 5e 2014, the deepest mechanics are the d20, the six abilities, and the Proficiency bonus. If there is a problem with any of these, it affects everything.

The problems with the six abilities affect everything.
I dispute that it's a problem Yaarel and I gave an outline of my reasons. It's not a problem that Intelligence, Strength and Charisma are more niche than Con, Dex and Wis or that there isn't a unification in importance or use of all 6 abilities equally.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
While I can see why you are frustrated by the current set-up, and I agree that my players do get frustrated that one skill doesn't cover everything, I'm not 100% convinced. You seem to be assuming that this particular fantasy trope didn't invest in strength, dexterity, and both skills purely because it uses up resources that could be spent elsewhere and you would also like to spend those resources elsewhere. I get that, and the thief-acrobat is one classic subclass that I wish had been included in the rules. Without a subclass, I just think that covering those bases is more appropriate with a specialist feat. An Olympic gymnast isn't an Olympic long jumper but then neither are they an Olympic wrestler. Athletes spend a lot of resources specialising and feats can cover that. It's more of an issue that the feats don't cover it. It's as if they avoided it to preserve space for the acrobat subclass and then didn't follow through.

While I could see the use of a feat, I think that rather misses the point.

A feat is something like Mage Slayer, which incorporates a specific ideal. But the argument I am reading in this discussion is more generically archetypical. Dex-based characters are expected to be able to perform certain stunts of climbing and jumping that they are just denied access to without a high strength. However, strength not only doesn't help them in their main duties, but it also opens up things they can do that the player might not WANT them to be able to do, like bursting steel chains.

Sure, an Olympic Gymnast isn't an Olympic Long Jumper isn't an Olympic Wrestler isn't an Olympic Archer... but DnD doesn't have that level of granularity. And using a feat to cover a basic part of an archetype that is missing from an entire ability score is... frustrating. Especially since we have so many instances of parallels between the two scores, that it feels off that a high dex character cannot leap and jump as we imagine they would, while both can do things like slip past enemies in combat via identical rules that use two different stats.
 



CapnZapp

Legend
You don't need to tell me you're going to stop discussing things you find strange, confusing or perplexing. You just stop discussing it.
I don't find anything about the game and how it is balanced strange, confusing or perplexing. I do find that your take on it makes further discussion uninteresting to me. Instead of just not replying to your posts, I'm giving you my reason why.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
While I can see why you are frustrated by the current set-up, and I agree that my players do get frustrated that one skill doesn't cover everything, I'm not 100% convinced. You seem to be assuming that this particular fantasy trope didn't invest in strength, dexterity, and both skills purely because it uses up resources that could be spent elsewhere and you would also like to spend those resources elsewhere. I get that, and the thief-acrobat is one classic subclass that I wish had been included in the rules. Without a subclass, I just think that covering those bases is more appropriate with a specialist feat. An Olympic gymnast isn't an Olympic long jumper but then neither are they an Olympic wrestler. Athletes spend a lot of resources specialising and feats can cover that. It's more of an issue that the feats don't cover it. It's as if they avoided it to preserve space for the acrobat subclass and then didn't follow through.
Generally, you don't fix problems with "here's a feat".

First off, the feat does not make you any better at those Athletics checks the game wants you to make. Nor does it circumvent having to do them.

Second, the solution "just use Acrobatics" is because the problem wasn't that a Rogue can't swim or climb. The solution is because the game makes that too expensive. Asking you (and let's ignore what the feat does for a second) to take a feat is also expensive, so it doesn't fix the issue.

---

Athletic heroes like rogues and fighters should be able to pop 'round the battlefield, neither being forced to take "the other's" physical skill just for basic movement - and more importantly, put precious ability points in an ability you're taking only because the game doesn't allow you basic movement with just one skill and ability.

(If you do like your Dex-build to do "pure strength stuff" such as grapple and make strength saves and lift gates and outcarry a pack mule, then by all means have at it and take Strength. But you shouldn't need to just in order to move just because the battlefield happens to feature fun three dimensional layouts, where your fantastic movement abilities are weirdly shut down by elevation differences. Especially since mundane jumping and swimming is nearly always eclipsed by magic when it really matters anyway. It's not that you gain particularly fantastic abilities. You mostly just patch niggling inabilities in your otherwise great repertoire of physical prowess)

If you already allow your Rogues to use Acrobatics to swing ropes or parkour their way up, you're halfway there. You just need to let go of the "well that's because there was alternative ways to pure climbing" mentality and realize that strength is part of all manners of elevation changes.

There is no such thing as "because there's steps and ropes you don't need Strength, you can do it with pure Dexterity." The distinction is silly, but more to the point, it's meaningless - it doesn't serve any useful purpose and indeed, all it accomplishes is cases where a Rogue player is shut down by some rules technicality.

Instead just embrace that martials are physically fit people. Some use one game stat and its associated skill; others use the other game stat and its associated skill. The simplest way of making the game work is to just say yes, and let people use either Athletics or Acrobatics interchangeably in the vast majority of cases :)

What you could do to incentivize doubling down on both Athletics and Acrobatics is use the "you have both the tool and the skill so you gain advantage" rule and say that if you're proficient in both, that's advantage.

It would mean that those of you arguing it's possible to think of an athletic hero without him being acrobatic, or an acrobatic hero without her being athletic, gains some satisfaction; all the while we solve one basic dilemma with how the vanilla rules work: there's just not enough incentive to take both Athletics (and Strength) and Acrobatics (and Dexterity). At least if you were assured of advantage (and didn't have to rely on making up fantastic descriptions for your DM to grant you advantage) it would be a small perk; maybe enough to justify taking both in some cases.
 

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