D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[Micah Sweet]

Your comment brings up a very cogent point that I think can be extended a bit to help illustrate something that I think we should remain reminded of.

Indeed Hasbro does not care about "us" (the gaming populace) as individuals or people because as you rightly point out. Hasbro is a company/corporation (and a large one at that). An inhuman corp doesn't care about humans because the entity itself isn't human. And when we talk about "Hasbro"... we always think of Hasbro in that term- an inhuman and unfeeling entity with its own concerns-- an entity that indeed wouldn't care about "Ennie Awards" (or things like that) because awards are from humans recognizing other humans.

But I do think it is also important to remind ourselves on occasion that there are indeed humans within that inhuman entity of a corporation, and that we have to be careful not to mistakenly place our disdain for that entity onto those humans within it. Hasbro the Corporation doesn't care about receiving any Ennie Awards... but I'm pretty sure Christopher Perkins certainly appreciates it when a product he worked on is given a Gold. Indeed I expect all the individual humans within Hasbro that have an active hand in producing Dungeons & Dragons content care about not only the Dungeons & Dragons game, but also the community that surrounds it, including all of the d50 / "5E Extended Universe" products that are made by people who love the games and community as well.

It can sometimes be hard to remember that when (general) you are royally pissed off at the inhuman entity that controls the Dungeons & Dragons game and you spit fire at it, some of that fire is hitting the actual humans responsible for the game you proclaim to care about. So we should all work extra dilligently to make sure our aim doesn't spray too far and hit the people who don't actually deserve the fire.

Of course, that means complaining about the corporation (specifically) is all anyone can ever do, because any action that might effect Hasbro will also affect its employees. Bit of a catch-22.

 

[Stormonu]

Honestly, even if every poster on this Board were to drop their 5e books in a trashcan and never run or play the game again, it wouldn't make a dent in Hasbro's fanbase or bottom line.

Conversely, if Hasbro canned production of 5E, it wouldn't make a dent in my desire to play or create for the game, and I'd still have enough content for the remainder of my (undead) life. I suspect that's true for most of us on here, and as long as we can still get together and play, we don't need Hasbro - or any other suit/company to keep OUR love of the game alive.

 

[Vaalingrade]

People may hate the suits.
People may not love the suits.

But we are doing a lot of heavy lifting conjuring a narrative mythology that solely benefits the suits.

 

[mamba]

So "d50?"

No idea, 5e+ ?

 

[Remathilis]

Of course, that means complaining about the corporation (specifically) is all anyone can ever do, because any action that might effect Hasbro will also affect its employees. Bit of a catch-22.

I think it's more about remembering that while companies are monolithic entities, they are full of smaller people who do care, but aren't in positions to affect major change.

Perkins or Kendrick or anyone else at the design level I feel obviously cares about the game and its players, and probably carried zero clout in regards to the OGL debacle. They are making the game they love and pouring their heart and soul into it, they can't do anything about the C suite who wants higher profit and lower expenses.

What we need to remember is that when we say "WotC is evil" or "Hasbro doesn't care about gamers" we are lumping those people in with the C suites as well. Lots of people work at mega corporations that we could consider evil and unethical, but that doesn't make those workers the same. That's important to remember.

 

[Retreater]

Indeed Hasbro does not care about "us" (the gaming populace) as individuals or people because as you rightly point out. Hasbro is a company/corporation (and a large one at that). An inhuman corp doesn't care about humans because the entity itself isn't human. And when we talk about "Hasbro"... we always think of Hasbro in that term- an inhuman and unfeeling entity with its own concerns-- an entity that indeed wouldn't care about "Ennie Awards" (or things like that) because awards are from humans recognizing other humans.

Yes. Hasbro is a corporation without "feelings" - but any business is a reflection of the people in that business. I'm in upper management at my workplace, and if my business treated people coldly, without compassion, or love of our work and the community, I would be changing things. The idea that C-suite executives have no power over their business and the culture is preposterous. So, yes, to spite Cocks and Williams I won't be supporting 5e further. (C-suite executives at companies such as Paizo can be more pro-consumer by making PDFs available, working with a variety of VTTs, supporting Archives of Nethys, creating great charity Humble Bundles, working with fans to have a vibrant Organized Play, unionize their employees, etc.)
When I say "they" don't care about us - that's Cocks and Williams if you want names instead of a nebulous corporation. You have people with no love of the hobby, no concept of tabletop RPGs or card games, and they aren't players - they look at us with disdain and insult us even in their investor calls.
And I'm sorry if good designers who care about the hobby such as Chris Perkins don't get a cut of my money. It's the old "contractors working on the Second Death Star quandary." And if it comes down to it, I would rather send my support to companies that don't take terrible, anti-fan actions, than to support Chris Perkins.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

5e is linked to Wotc and Hasbro until such a time that they're no longer selling physical and digital products for it. Even if you play a 5e-compatible clone or 5e-compatible expansions, by playing it and talking about it, you are keeping Wotc's current product line relevant.

As much as people meme on the new edition, 5e 2024 is still going to be 5e and still going to be 5e compatible. Wotc is going to keep directly benefiting from the 5e ecosystem of products for a long, long time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think it's more about remembering that while companies are monolithic entities, they are full of smaller people who do care, but aren't in positions to affect major change.

Perkins or Kendrick or anyone else at the design level I feel obviously cares about the game and its players, and probably carried zero clout in regards to the OGL debacle. They are making the game they love and pouring their heart and soul into it, they can't do anything about the C suite who wants higher profit and lower expenses.

What we need to remember is that when we say "WotC is evil" or "Hasbro doesn't care about gamers" we are lumping those people in with the C suites as well. Lots of people work at mega corporations that we could consider evil and unethical, but that doesn't make those workers the same. That's important to remember.

Of course. People and their employer are often very different. But that doesn't change my concern. Nothing that can affect the corp doesn't affect their workers.

 

[RoughCoronet0]

I have consistently been pleased with what WotC has put out for D&D 5e, so I’ll continue to purchase from them as I’m excited for the revised core books and curious about the other books they have coming out.

So I won’t be throwing away D&D 5e anytime soon, especially WotC’s version of it as none of the other “5e-like” games coming out have Interested me in the slightest. In truth, I’m also rather turned off to the idea of even bothering with a different TTRPG in general after the last few years. I’ll stick to what I like.

 

[cranberry]

Most D&D players probably never consider products outside of what WOTC produces for D&D.

For that reason above, WoTC and D&D have nothing to worry about.

Folks here are the exception. 98% of D&D players don't care about all of the various WoTC controversies, and will continue playing D&D no matter what.

WoTC doesn't really even need to create a walled garden to maintain its market dominance.