D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[Twiggly the Gnome]

So "d50?"

I don't even own a d50!

 

[DEFCON 1]

Yes. Hasbro is a corporation without "feelings" - but any business is a reflection of the people in that business. I'm in upper management at my workplace, and if my business treated people coldly, without compassion, or love of our work and the community, I would be changing things. The idea that C-suite executives have no power over their business and the culture is preposterous. So, yes, to spite Cocks and Williams I won't be supporting 5e further. (C-suite executives at companies such as Paizo can be more pro-consumer by making PDFs available, working with a variety of VTTs, supporting Archives of Nethys, creating great charity Humble Bundles, working with fans to have a vibrant Organized Play, unionize their employees, etc.)
When I say "they" don't care about us - that's Cocks and Williams if you want names instead of a nebulous corporation. You have people with no love of the hobby, no concept of tabletop RPGs or card games, and they aren't players - they look at us with disdain and insult us even in their investor calls.
And I'm sorry if good designers who care about the hobby such as Chris Perkins don't get a cut of my money. It's the old "contractors working on the Second Death Star quandary." And if it comes down to it, I would rather send my support to companies that don't take terrible, anti-fan actions, than to support Chris Perkins.

Oh believe me, I'm not talking about money at all. People absolutely shouldn't spend their money on things they don't want (whatever those reasons are), I'm in full agreement you there.

No, my point was mainly just to remind people that when they were overcome with the urge to throw their slings and arrows of rage and anger towards Hasbro, just to be careful with their aim and actually direct it at the proper targets. As sometimes people just spout invectives that paint everyone and everything with a wide brush and hit people who probably don't deserve it. (And I hopefully I made clear that I wasn't referencing you specifically, Retreater, in that regard... because your post definitely did not that and I didn't want you to think I was.) And indeed your follow-up post above that singled out specific folks that you felt deserved your disdain helped make that even more true.

 

[Retreater]

Of course. People and their employer are often very different. But that doesn't change my concern. Nothing that can affect the corp doesn't affect their workers.

This is true. And my heart goes out to the 1100 people who were laid off from Hasbro. I hope to support them as they move to other businesses that are more pro-worker and pro-consumer.
I am helping those other businesses when I encourage my players to play other systems and talk about other games.
Another way of looking at it. I have a friend who runs a small coffeeshop where he also promotes local musicians and other artists. That's where I want to buy my coffee, not Starbucks. I encourage my other friends to do the same. It's not that I dislike the baristas who work at Starbucks, it's that I would prefer to support my friend and his workers.
Some in the TTRPG industry I consider actual friends - or at least pleasant acquaintances. I'd rather my players support their creative projects than lining the bonuses of Cocks and Williams.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Of course, that means complaining about the corporation (specifically) is all anyone can ever do, because any action that might effect Hasbro will also affect its employees. Bit of a catch-22.

Or at the very least, a person should try and take a few moments to single out the proper target of their ire and address those people directly. If someone complains with... (and please note I'm using a hyperbolic example here just for more obvious effect)...

"Everyone at Hasbro hates Dungeons & Dragons and they've ruined the game and I hope they all lose their jobs so D&D can be bought by someone who actually cares about it!"

We all know that's not correct or true, and it lessens that person's commentary or authority on the subject (as least I feel as though it does.) It's painting with a wide and unnecessary brush. So my point was to just inspire people to be stronger commentators by using specificity and decisive aim.

Whether or not anyone actually cares though?

 

[Faolyn]

But if we abandon it, it's the developers and artists that will be hurt. And not just the ones working for WOTC.

That's why it's also important to support games by other companies as well, even (especially) those that aren't 5e based.

 

[Retreater]

Or at the very least, a person should try and take a few moments to single out the proper target of their ire and address those people directly. If someone complains with... (and please note I'm using a hyperbolic example here just for more obvious effect)...

"Everyone at Hasbro hates Dungeons & Dragons and they've ruined the game and I hope they all lose their jobs so D&D can be bought by someone who actually cares about it!"

I don't even have that level of ire. But what I'd like to see is a hobby industry where D&D can remain the top game - let's say have 50% of the share - and the rest can play other genres, other systems, support indie designers, etc. - instead of being the 99% monolith it is today (or whatever it is). Even being the 99% monolith it is now isn't enough for the c-suites at Hasbro. Stomping out the rest of the hobby industry still wouldn't be enough.

So I think it's important for us to spread awareness of other systems, encourage our tables to pick up games from other studios (whether it's Shadowdark, Pathfinder 2, Call of Cthulhu, Dread, Forbidden Lands, etc.) It's not so much about hating Hasbro or 5e as it is to spread love and support to others.

So long as we remain in the 5e/D&D/Hasbro ecosystem, we run the risk of ...
1) Not supporting companies who allow their workers to unionize
2) Not supporting companies who share their design with other companies
3) Purchasing backwards compatible content from Hasbro (ex. let's buy the Vecna book and use it in our Tales of the Valiant game)
4) Not innovating the hobby by supporting designers with intriguing new ideas
5) Getting tired of recycled content and "the same old game" - which can lead to burnout and losing players

Yes, it's not a zero sum game. But, I'd argue there are limits depending on how many games you can run. Every 5e campaign I run is a Pathfinder or Forbidden Lands game I'm not running.

 

[mamba]

I don't even have that level of ire. But what I'd like to see is a hobby industry where D&D can remain the top game - let's say have 50% of the share - and the rest can play other genres, other systems, support indie designers, etc. - instead of being the 99% monolith it is today (or whatever it is).

going by Roll20 numbers, that (D&D 5e being 50%) is what we have today…

 

[Micah Sweet]

For that reason above, WoTC and D&D have nothing to worry about.

Folks here are the exception. 98% of D&D players don't care about all of the various WoTC controversies, and will continue playing D&D no matter what.

WoTC doesn't really even need to create a walled garden to maintain it's market dominance.

But they will anyway.

 

[Minigiant]

But were are doing a lot of heavy lifting conjuring a narrative mythology that solely benefits the suits.

I see the opposite.

There is a lot of talk that the suits and Hasbro are useless and unnecessary when cutting them required them to create the market and infrastructure.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I see the opposite.

There is a lot of talk that the suits and Hasbro are useless and unnecessary when cutting them required them to create the market and infrastructure.

They created the market and infrastructure around themselves, not the entire hobby. Especially when one start acting like this one company is apparently holding up the whole industry and that's somehow a good thing.

If we want a healthier hobby, we need multiple players competing and innovating, not one fat fisher king resting on their laurels, acting like they're a keystone for the entire hobby and just expecting everyone to fall back into line no matter what they do.