D&D General Styles of D&D Play

[Alzrius]

I don't think I would put the success of 5E down purely to luck, it was a very intentionally designed product meant to reinvigorate the brand, which was losing out to Pathfinder at the time, following the failures of 4th edition.

I don't think it was purely due to luck, but at the same time, I'm not sure that anyone could have expected that it would explode across the public consciousness the way that it did. There were clearly some external factors at work, and while the game's simplified design (which was, I agree, a reaction to the failures of 4th Edition) played a part in that, I think that in large part it's more of an issue of it not scaring people off after its appearances in other areas of pop culture convinced people to give it a try.

 

[hgjertsen]

I don't think it was purely due to luck, but at the same time, I'm not sure that anyone could have expected that it would explode across the public consciousness the way that it did. There were clearly some external factors at work, and while the game's simplified design (which was, I agree, a reaction to the failures of 4th Edition) played a part in that, I think that in large part it's more of an issue of it not scaring people off after its appearances in other areas of pop culture convinced people to give it a try.

Oh I agree, it not scaring people off because it was extremely simplified

 

[Minigiant]

That looks accurate to me. But I still think 19% isn't nothing. Also Millennials start at 1981. You are going to have some people in that demographic who started gaming in the 90s during the TSR era.

I don't know, I would say having a fairly simply system that seems inspired by some of that basic D&D openness is pretty ideal for a moment when D&D does catch on fire. I get there can be other explanations. But I also think it is hard to dismiss that 5E wasn't a huge success and a large amount of that success is probably dependent on the system. I mean yes cultural moments matter for sure, but it is a combination of factors. Either way, whatever the truth is there, my point was just that I believe the designers were probably thinking more in terms of how to capture segments of the gaming community than in terms of advancing their own personal preferences and gaming biases.

They could do both create a simple system that supported a universally liked playstyle to not scare off newcomers and old fans AND put zero to no effort in the support and design of the playstyles they didn't care about.

The first campaign is simple awesome.
The second campaign is cool.
The third campaign when you try to mix it up or do something new, you say "Why the heck would they design it this way?"

But they got you to buy the core books and got you money in campaign 1 and 2.

 

[Oofta]

I don't think I would put the success of 5E down purely to luck, it was a very intentionally designed product meant to reinvigorate the brand, which was losing out to Pathfinder at the time, following the failures of 4th edition. 5E was a bold step towards very simple, very broad design. Gone are the days of Tomes of Vile Darkness and obscure 3.x splatbooks, the era of 5E was meant to sell a small number of products to every single player, as opposed to the marketing philosophy of 3.x, which was to sell a huge variety of products to cover the needs and desires of every conceivable player.

There's a very good reason why all the 5E splatbooks are extremely basic stuff that for the most part is just "more monster manual" or "more player's handbook". Those types of books appeal to every single 5E player.

Don't forget they did the biggest play test ever done for a TTRPG. Likely dwarfed by the feedback from the 2024 edition, but still. Obviously they didn't have a crystal ball to survey new players but it was not just luck. It was a concerted effort that involved a lot of trial and error while listening to feedback to make an edition people enjoyed.

 

[Oofta]

They could do both create a simple system that supported a universally liked playstyle to not scare off newcomers and old fans AND put zero to no effort in the support and design of the playstyles they didn't care about.

The first campaign is simple awesome.
The second campaign is cool.
The third campaign when you try to mix it up or do something new, you say "Why the heck would they design it this way?"

But they got you to buy the core books and got you money in campaign 1 and 2.

I'm on campaign 6 for running and campaign ... well I'm not sure for playing. Still okay with it.

 

[Minigiant]

I'm on campaign 6 for running and campaign ... well I'm not sure for playing. Still okay with it.

I'm not saying you would stop playing

I'm saying a DM might try to spice it up an try a Intrigue or Survival or.Historic game in their third campaign and throw their books at the wall.

And the player might try something nontraditional like a Beastmaster Ranger or Elements Monk or Berserker Barbarian and get upset.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't call it all luck either.

Millions of dollars in product placement over the past fifteen years. Shows like Big Bang Theory and Stranger Things and Rick and Morty. Massive outreach with things like regular Unearthed Arcana, not counting the playtests they have been doing, what, quarterly or more frequent UA's for over a decade. Expanding into all sorts of merchandise and whatnot.

While I'm sure the amount of growth has been a shock, I wouldn't call it entirely luck either. WotC has been climbing this mountain for a LOOOONG time.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

But, that's your choice. You could use xp if you wanted to. I'm talking about the game, not your particular, idiosyncratic, take on it.

It's helpful in these discussions to differentiate between how a specific table plays the game and what the game itself says.

OK, but if you don't respond to my posts what do I do? I don't want to be pushy.

 

[Hussar]

OK, but if you don't respond to my posts what do I do? I don't want to be pushy.

Well, I cannot really respond to your post. You are talking about your specific table - you are choosing not to use the mechanics in the book. Which is a perfectly fair choice. After all, I would presume you are doing milestone leveling. Again, a perfectly reasonable choice and one I've also done. But, that doesn't change the fact that the system is there in the books.

OTOH, I do not have the choice if I want to run a campaign that doesn't free form most social interactions. There are simply no mechanics present that I can choose to ignore/change. That's why it's mostly free form.

Does that make sense?

 

[bloodtide]

I don't know the numbers here, but old school fans are not all over 40. The OSR has introduced a lot of people to old school play. But obviously Gen X is a pretty small generation. It wouldn't surprise me if gamers my age aren't massively represented in D&D. I do still see appeals to old school players. I think with Basic the gamble was that will bring in old school fans but also bring in new people because basic was very good at getting people who didn't play into RPGs.

5E D&D is great at what it does: provide a simple, easy, clean fun game to casually play with a group of friends. It gives the Younger Gamers what they want: "Some fun time to imagine killing a dragon!"

D&D does have a huge influx of new gamers. All the time. Baldur's Gate three caused a big fall out. Many video gamers loved playing BG3 by clicking buttons and then wanted to make the jump to playing real D&D, for example.

D&D, and RPGs as a whole, are not big on retention: many people when young play D&D for a couple years...at most. Then they drop it hard. Years and years later someone might mention D&D and they will say "oh yea, I played that once" and they will never play again.

Players that do stick with 5E for a time often become...bored...restless...unstatsifyed or worse. The game play is always the same (as it was made that way). And this is doubly so as most games follow the same "houserules" and "Gentleman's Agreement" as every other game with no verity at all.

I find most such players jump at a chance to play an Old School or OSR games after all of the above.