D&D General Reassesing Robert E Howards influence on D&D +

[pemerton]

Poul Anderson has elf and troll kingdoms capable of organizing into armies and making war in The Broken Sword (1954), and in a more Chainmail-style assorted army form implied in Three Hearts & Three Lions.

The Hobbit, with its Battle of Five Armies, is 1937; but I don't know if this influenced Anderson.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Right. Star-spangled robe, laboratory, wand, book-learnin'.

Also, curiously, a time traveller.

You know what else came out in 1963? Doctor Who.

(Not that Doctor Who influenced early D&D, it would not have reached the US, but it did tap into the same zeitgeist).

There was a British TV series in 1956 called the Adventures of Sir Lancelot (which shared an actor with Doctor Who). In that, Merlin was portrayed as fake-magical, but with anachronistic scientific knowledge.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I have always been disappointed that Froud's Faeries books didn't make the same impact with everyone at TSR. Fey, even now, are among the least interestingly presented monster types in the game. Froud and Lee really showed that they could be weird and fun.

In the 70s, the pop-culture view of faeries was they where childish and twee (hello Tinkerbell, Disney got a lot to answer for). So Early D&D steered away from them. In our current culture, faeries have been rehabilitated, and are far more popular in D&D now.

 

[pemerton]

I'm pretty sure Faeries (= Grey Elves, at least in the 1977 MM) are in Chainmail. Aren't they?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I'm pretty sure Faeries (= Grey Elves, at least in the 1977 MM) are in Chainmail. Aren't they?

Put through a Tolkien style retcon, yes.

Trope: our faeries are nothing like Tinkerbell.

 

[Mannahnin]

Put through a Tolkien style retcon, yes.

Trope: our faeries are nothing like Tinkerbell.

At least as much Anderson as Tolkien, given that Anderson actually called his elves both elves and Faeries (in The Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions), which Tolkien didn't.

 

[Bedrockgames]

At least as much Anderson as Tolkien, given that Anderson actually called his elves both elves and Faeries (in The Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions), which Tolkien didn't.

I didn't read Three Hearts and Three Lions until long after Tolkien, and I really wish I did because it explained a great deal to me in this respect)

 

[Mannahnin]

I didn't read Three Hearts and Three Lions until long after Tolkien, and I really wish I did because it explained a great deal to me in this respect)

Same for most of us who weren't of Gygax or Arneson's generations.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Same for most of us who weren't of Gygax or Arneson's generations.

I wasn't, but was a fan of 50's era SF, so a lot of Anderson crossed my plate that otherwise might not have.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

In the 70s, the pop-culture view of faeries was they where childish and twee (hello Tinkerbell, Disney got a lot to answer for). So Early D&D steered away from them. In our current culture, faeries have been rehabilitated, and are far more popular in D&D now.

I think Froud was a big part of that, both in his books and with Labyrinth. If D&D had gotten on board with that approach as late as the 2E core books, I think fey in D&D would be much better than they are now. They're better, sure, but they're still really boring in comparison to fiends, despite historically being a comparable part of folklore.