D&D 5E [+]Exploration Falls Short For Many Groups, Let’s Talk About It

[Micah Sweet]

There is an apropos OOTS comic from years back that has always stuck in my mind:

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The funny thing is, that's an Elan principle. If anyone would know that, it would be him.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Hahaha, yeah, it encapsulates the issue quite well. Montage travel!

I think that if you want to take exploration seriously, it needs to be part of the main plot. @doctorbadwolf 's examples are things linked to the story (or maybe side-quests). Reasons to go into the wilderness. Reasons it's treacherous to do so.

And that means giving it space, time, and attention. Letting it be something the party can fail at, that challenges them. Not just a bump in the road that the Daily-rationed characters steamroll.

Because a dungeon isn't something you just do one encounter in before moving onto the treasure, either!

Again, combat doesn't have to be part of the main plot for people to take it seriously.

 

[Hussar]

Again, combat doesn't have to be part of the main plot for people to take it seriously.

No, that's true. It doesn't have to be combat. But, combat is probably the path of least resistance. You drop those initiative dice and you tend to immediately grab the party's attention. A random tinker (who is actually, really, a tinker) that you meet might capture some attention, but, again, it is really going to depend on the situation. And, realistically, if the party already has a goal of some sort that they are trying to achieve, this is probably just a bit of color and not much more.

Part of the issue is keeping things tight. It's why I do like @I'm A Banana 's idea of treating exploration like a dungeon. Or, maybe another way to think about it, a flow chart, which is what a dungeon actually is. So, as you move from node to node within the exploration, you engage with each in turn, same as you would a dungeon. Go from room 1 down Corridor A to Room 2. At room 2 you can go to rooms 3 or 4 and, if you're particularly observant, possibly go to room 8 through that trapdoor.

It's not a bad way to design an exploration adventure. But, it does have the disadvantage of being somewhat labour intensive. You'd need that bank of X number of "nodes" because doing that on the fly is likely not going to work.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

See, to me, that just makes high level play nearly unplayable. If I, as the DM, have to deal with "weird effects" for every caster, every time they cast a 6th level spell, I'm simply never going to play those levels. That's far too much of a headache.

IME games that do this sort of thing aren’t a headache at all. I also didn’t say to put “weird effects”, I said “make high magic weird”, which is relevant to the thread for reasons I’ll get into below

But, this is also way outside the scope of this thread as well, so, sorry for the derail. That totally wasn't my intention.

Sort of, but not a huge detour, and magic items and spells and weird high level class features are all things that change what exploration can reasonably be at high levels.

And, I think I do agree that attrition should not be the only way to do exploration. That I do agree with.

Yeah for sure.

 

[Hussar]

Really though, I think we should nail down exploration at more mundane levels before the high level stuff. I mean, sure, it would be great to go explore the Elemental Plane of Fire (as an example) but, that sort of play is often pretty far beyond the scope of most groups. I'd much rather have a set of mechanics for a group of mid-tier levels, say 4th to about 12th. That's high enough that the party should have their own means to do actual extended exploration - a ship or vehicle of some sort, crew, enough resources to fund an extended bit of exploration, that sort of thing.

I mean, challenging a 1-3rd level party isn't hard. I think we can all do that. Often the challenge there is not overwhelming the party. But parties become so exponentially more capable from 4th to 12th. That's typically where the meat and potatoes of many campaigns lie. Frankly, 7th+ level spells, I personally don't actually care that much because so little play actually occurs at those levels.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

+ thread-style: what are some other meaningful consequences for failure we could bake in? How can we trigger loss aversion in the players? What will they potentially give up by exploring?

Well with opportunity based exploration the focus is on the carrot, not the stick, so it isn’t as needed to get clever with the stick. However, if you want to do so, certainly alliances can be threatened, or they can be pulled at from multiple directions or come into conflict with eachother and put you in the middle, the party can find out about a danger while in the wilds and need to investigate further, any of dozens of ticking clocks, home bases, find out a PCs home town is in a region now beset by the army of the dragon lord they ticked off several levels ago, the magic in one of thier items could be fading and the only key to restoring it is deep in the Night Wood, etc.

Out of the box, D&D says hp, HD, character death, those are the things we can really threaten the player with, mechanically. Kind of, spell slots, too.

Traditionally, there's also threats to things that aren't characters, which gets more relevant at higher levels. The world is ending. The war is coming. Has limits, but is also very classic.

Time has been mentioned and works, but definitely has similar limits, too. Not something you can always use.

I think the loss of the goal like you describe works pretty well. In the dungeon metaphor, there's a McGuffin in the dungeon, and if you fail to find it, well, you don't find the McGuffin. If you fail to get the objective in the wilderness, you return to civilization broken and defeated and without having been the first person to the North Pole.

D&D also has a bit of a checkered tradition with risking magic items. Not sure that would be great to bring back, but it's there.

If not those things, then what are the PC's going to lose when they rest? And what can we take from them when they take the wrong path?

The idea of opportunity based adventure is that you don’t worry about making them lose anything by resting. You just make them want to push on.

Hahaha, yeah, it encapsulates the issue quite well. Montage travel!

I think that if you want to take exploration seriously, it needs to be part of the main plot. @doctorbadwolf 's examples are things linked to the story (or maybe side-quests). Reasons to go into the wilderness. Reasons it's treacherous to do so.

And that means giving it space, time, and attention. Letting it be something the party can fail at, that challenges them. Not just a bump in the road that the Daily-rationed characters steamroll.

Because a dungeon isn't something you just do one encounter in before moving onto the treasure, either!

Hell yes.

Really though, I think we should nail down exploration at more mundane levels before the high level stuff. I mean, sure, it would be great to go explore the Elemental Plane of Fire (as an example) but, that sort of play is often pretty far beyond the scope of most groups. I'd much rather have a set of mechanics for a group of mid-tier levels, say 4th to about 12th. That's high enough that the party should have their own means to do actual extended exploration - a ship or vehicle of some sort, crew, enough resources to fund an extended bit of exploration, that sort of thing.

I mean, challenging a 1-3rd level party isn't hard. I think we can all do that. Often the challenge there is not overwhelming the party. But parties become so exponentially more capable from 4th to 12th. That's typically where the meat and potatoes of many campaigns lie. Frankly, 7th+ level spells, I personally don't actually care that much because so little play actually occurs at those levels.

Yeah for sure, and for me great high level design is built on the basis of lower level design. The game changes, but it’s still the same game.

How different are the architectures of adventuring in Sharn at 5th level and doing so in Sigil at 10th level, and the City of Brass or Dis at 15th level?

Surrounded by people from everywhere you ever heard of and plenty of places you never dreamt of, and for every scrub you could punt into a deep hole, there is a guy that can do the same to you. You need allies, you need a safe place to sleep, you need local knowledge, and you need currency, and you probably didn’t show up here with any of those lined up.

 

[Maxperson]

It's not even rules clarity.

5e should tell you what the skills do.
Leave adjudication and resolution of the skill to the DM.
But make a list of what each skill does in order for players to feel informed of their options.

I'm really torn on this. On the one hand a detailed list is good for player ease of play. On the other hand it is also very constraining. Once a detailed list is made, people rarely look beyond it for what they use the skill for, even though such a list can almost never be comprehensive.

 

[Vaalingrade]

There's not reason a detailed list couldn't be accompanied by 'this is by no means an exhaustive list of what these can do'.

 

[cbwjm]

Not sure if this supplement would provide some ideas for exploration, it looks like there are some good ideas in it but I still need to go through it properly. It's 129 pages total so likely something in there people will find useful.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I’d like to see language used more in exploration. Usually language is an afterthought or Easter egg in most campaigns. However I’d like to see clues and world building using language. Whether it be passages that need translating, language that explains more about the society, or tools for deciphering and understanding languages. It might be Illithid Qualith, Aboleth glyphs, draconian primal alphabet or aqua sand script. I’d like to see more done with more common languages like elven and dwarven. With it actually mattering if someone can speak / translate / find a translator. The. There are Druidic signs, ranger signs and thieves cant. All could be part of exploration.

I remember one of the first AD&D products I bought. A second hand copy of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting box. With a dozen or so way runes that adventurers might leave for fellow travelers - ‘danger - monster lair’, or ‘safe resting place’. Loved that.

Comprehend languages is a first level ritual. Deciphering runes is a non-issue at character creation. Which is part of the problem. Exploration is really hindered by 5E's quick and easy magic. And anything that challenges magic winds up being particularly hard for non-casters to overcome/contribute to, because so many old timers insist that martial = regular chump.