D&D 5E [+]Exploration Falls Short For Many Groups, Let’s Talk About It

Whatever you include, there are large chunks of time in LotR and the Hobbit were weeks go by without anything happening apart from travelling. Tolkien knew very well that having an orc jump out of every bush is silly.
I think it's worth mentioning again that not every wilderness needs to be hostile (and most probably shouldn't). Just like a dungeon is a particular place you go for a particular reason, so too a challenging wilderness. It's not just travel between point A and point B, it's "we're the first people ever to find a path to Point B" or "Point B is a haunted ruin deep within a twisted fey forest overflowing with hostile beasts"

We don't really need mechanics for "a few weeks pass and nothing really happens."

We need mechanics for "no one has ever come out of the Darkwood alive."
 

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The Hobbit
Travel here is mostly "we spent several present weeks riding through the woods, until it rained and we got wet and grumpy (apart from the wizard who cast a spell to keep the rain off)." Peter Jackson tried to liven it up with constant orc attacks, and it all felt rather silly. Lesson 1: wizards have always been OP. Lesson 2: don't overegg the pudding.
You left out all the book encounters!

1. Orcs and wargs
2. Dragon
3. Gollum
4. Trolls
5. Angry elves
download (2).jpg
 

Finally, I would mention the concept of the Deathworld. This is a location where everything is trying to kill you. This is really the only situation where I would find the party fending off multiple attacks every day plausible.
Every day is not an adventuring day, though, which helps. And really, in my opinion the best way to handle the adventuring day is to use the extended version where it lasts a week before long rest and you can spread out the encounters.
 

What are we trying to achieve with this exploration stuff anyway? Do we want to emulate fiction?

Lord of the Rings
Most of the time several weeks pass between encounters, although there are occasionally a couple in quick succession. We can assume that the party is generally at full strength at the start. The main exception is Sam and Frodo's journey through Mordor, where attrition and fatigue become a big factor, and occasionally travel is very quick and easy (e.g. Gandalf and Pippin ride to Minas Tirith). The conclusion I would draw is that there is a place for "challenging" travel, but it should be the exception, not the rule.

The Hobbit
Travel here is mostly "we spent several present weeks riding through the woods, until it rained and we got wet and grumpy (apart from the wizard who cast a spell to keep the rain off)." Peter Jackson tried to liven it up with constant orc attacks, and it all felt rather silly. Lesson 1: wizards have always been OP. Lesson 2: don't overegg the pudding.

REH
Conan never seems to have any difficulties striding across Hyboria.


Or maybe we want realism? Most real life expeditions that get into difficulties do so because of issues with food and drink, weather, and disease. But the big killer are errors in planning before the expedition even sets out. And we tend not to hear stories about the many expeditions that pass off without a hitch.


Finally, I would mention the concept of the Deathworld. This is a location where everything is trying to kill you. This is really the only situation where I would find the party fending off multiple attacks every day plausible.
I'm going for realism, yeah, as much as is practical (same as I want in every aspect of the game). I want to emulate travel and exploration. Logistics matter in those arenas, so I want them to matter in the game.
 

does anyone else think that comprehend languages is too powerful/useful for being a first level spell? given that it manages to obviliate a large section of a kind of obstacle, is it a convenience that we've just come to expect having?
I changed the spell to tie into the language's use.

Adventures in the Nine Planes said:
Comprehend Languages
Level: 1
Duration: 1 hour
Range: Self

The caster can understand any written language the caster is touching. The ability to read does not necessarily impart insight into the material, merely its literal meaning.

Common languages can be read easily [Welsh]. Living but uncommon languages require a caster check of 10+ to read [Irish]. Dead or dying languages that are still understood by sages require a caster check of 15+ [Cornish]. Extinct languages require a caster check of 20+ [Pictish]. An additional casting can grant an additional roll.

I also have a 3rd level spell understand text, which functions similarly but addresses one of the following: temporarily fills in small bits of missing text, grants a clue to the language, identify one pertinent linguistic or cultural pearl (this word means black or blue, and probably blue in this context), or roll with advantage on the basic understanding of the language due to rarity.
 

I concur with a lot of issues mentioned.

There should be a list of what can happen while traveling or exploring.
- Travelling safe paths leads to more automatic encounters but expected or safe ones. The burned out mansion two days out of town that everyone knows about, the patrols between Homeburg and Porttown, the cart track from the main road towards Iffydorp is three days from Porttown roughly here, &c.

There should be a thematic list of bad things that could happen including but not solely monster attacks.
- New ruins, magical zones, faerie rings, monster lairs, abandoned bandit camps, recent battle ground, monster territorial markings, &c. Potential new adventure sites to be explored or come back to, plot hooks (where are the bandits, why did they leave?), in-game warnings of dangerous monsters or other encounters that would be in line for the party to encounter or notice that it is beyond them right now. Also demonstrations of wonderous encounters that highlight the characters are in a magical world, and an opportunity for engaged or clever players to exploit or take inspiration from.

Weather issues; Man vs. Nature issues.
- Blizzard, torrential rain, river crossings, blazing heat, forest fire, sandstorm, mountain climbing, &c. Explanations as to how skills, classes, and spells interact and overcome these obstacles, with an emphasis on cooperative skill use. Ideally, class abilities of 9+ level or spells of 4th+ level can bypass these issues through grit, skill, or magic. Lesser abilities can mitigate but not obviate the issue.

Part of the issue is loss of supplies; equipment, food, and shelter. We have numerous records and journals from history where a lost canoe or leaking fuel can has caused injury or death from lack of supplies. I absolutely appreciate that many people are disinterested in the minutia of inventory management. I believe this is where upkeep or supply abstractions come in handy. Everyone starts the adventure with what they would reasonably need. A mishap along a river leads to a loss of food for X characters. The consequences are partial rations leading to loss of movement, -2 to skill checks from hunger, disadvantage, exhaustion levels, whatever. This can be addressed by foraging and hunting, which the fighters, rangers, and druids can more easily contribute to, along with those from a more isolated or hunting culture. The consequence becomes slower travel because you have to supplement your food, or fewer spells since some are used or saved to provide food for the party.

This avoids "gotchas" where the party didn't think to buy tents, but also rewards the player who carries the fur and wool cloak they have due to their background. Why did they bring it in the middle of summer? It's a part of their heritage and fond memories of their home life. Amazingly, this faerie glade leads to the Court of the First Thaw, where the climate is perpetually in late Winter. The party can go, but one character will be in good stead. I think this helps address a, legitimate I think, objection a poster had in another thread about the inherent pointlessness of inventory management. They said something like it was just a gotcha lottery for the GM. That should be avoided, I think. It is reasonable to assume a degree of competence from PCs, enough that they would bring sufficient food and appropriate clothing for whatever trip they make. The trick is then how well are you able to avoid or mitigate hazards and their consequences.

I agree with the list of three types of travel:
  • Going to a known location.
  • Going to a reported location.
  • Going to an unknown location / general exploration.

These have much different requirements and expectations.

I agree that there are some spells and abilities that wholly remove consequences for exploratory travel. This is fine for some groups, no argument there. In this case exploration needs to be more about what can be found along the way and how much time is required to find the / an objective. There should be a reason why crossing a mountain pass in Winter is a bad idea, and it should be defined how bad is bad for 1st, 5th, 9th, 12th+ level parties. For which group is the pass actually impassable, difficult, navigable, or trivial to access? Which isn't to say there are no consequences or danger. However, given the number of otherwise prepared but inexpert people who require rescue while mountain climbing every year, it makes sense that some first level parties need to wait until Spring.

While camping experience isn't required, I do believe that those who craft exploration rules will craft a better product after camping some and reading adventure fiction and travelogues from the early 1900s. It gives you an idea of what can and has happened and how skilled and untrained people survived, or didn't.
 

I’ve noticed in my games the newer and younger players expect a sort of video game and hand holding and go from scene to scene.

When I played instead of DMed it blew their minds that I would listen at doors and find a way around a trap instead of disarming it or setting it off.

I was happy when they learned from a bit of the old school.
 

This was my major issue with Abomination Vaults: the dungeon was a 15-minute stroll from the town you live in.

Zero tension in the campaign. We’d go in, get in a couple of fights, then be home in time for supper to take a long rest.
I'm running that now in 5E, and moved to an alt rest system partly for that reason. The party can take 3 short rests and 1 long in the "delve phase", then need to take downtime for a couple weeks, during which the denizens of the dungeon react/replenish and town events occur. It also avoids the issue of going from 1st to 12th level in under a month.
 

I'm running that now in 5E, and moved to an alt rest system partly for that reason. The party can take 3 short rests and 1 long in the "delve phase", then need to take downtime for a couple weeks, during which the denizens of the dungeon react/replenish and town events occur. It also avoids the issue of going from 1st to 12th level in under a month.
Journeys have been mentioned upthread, and I really do like how TOR does overland travel using Journeys. One of the reasons I like it is because it creates this sort of natural long timescale to adventures that evokes Tolkien, but also just....feels nice in a fantasy adventure TTRPG, and gives the world and NPC's some breathing room where they're not racing to save the world in a weekend.
 

As much as it might be a hassle for a particular DM to do... both in terms of the work and in getting your players to go along with it... I do think one of the most successful ways to get a game to work the way you would want it to work is by just creating condensed spell lists for each class/subclass. That way you can just take out the spells you don't want to use from the game (especially ones that remove Exploration obstacles) without making the players think that's specifically why you are curtailing their spell lists.

As I think might have been mentioned earlier in this thread (or perhaps one of the other ones) back in Basic D&D the Cleric and the Magic-User has like 8 spells to choose from at each level. That's it. The amount of stuff characters could do with magic was curtailed so much more than what is possible today. And there's no reason why a DM couldn't just go back to that today if they wanted to just put in the work and deal with the possible player complaints. You don't want Comprehend Languages or Tiny Hut or Create Water or any teleport or Fly spells because they all just bypass Exploration challenges? Create new class spell lists for your game where none of those spells are included.

It's no different than what we would say to the DM who says they wished D&D would just go back to the Core Four classes with everything else being subclasses. We'd tell them "Just do it!" You don't have to wait for WotC, you can make that exact type of game for yourself right now with a little bit of work. And the same holds true for "too much magic" in the game. Don't wait for WotC to do it... just take it out yourself.
 

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