DCC Level 0 Character Funnel is a Bad Concept

[MNblockhead]

And if you like Goodman's publications otherwise, I definitely recommend the OAR series if you don't have them already.

I heartedly second the OAR series books, brining some classic D&D to 5e. Old good coffee table books with some nice history and essays. My only complaint is that Goodman Games isn't licensed to release PDFs of them IIRC. The OAR books are a bit unweildly at the table. They are huge. You are paying for a updated for 5e adventure that was a think softcover booklet back in the day, but they have every version of it, plus history, essays, artwork etc. And they are so expensive, I feel like I have to baby them at the table.

I have to say, however, that I was underwhelmed with the original 5e adventures Goodman Games published for 5e. To be fair, I only seriously looked at and bought a few of the earliest one. They were the only non-WotC 5e adventures I recall seeing in my FLGS in 2014-15. I haven't looked at any of their new original stuff for 5e. But other than the OAR books, I feel they save their passion for DCC. Which makes sense, it being their in-house system and all.

 

[MNblockhead]

On the plus side, their articles on Appendix N writers and their works are cool freebies.

But yeah, their main aesthetic gives the vibe of a vary talented high schooler in the 1980s who is crafting the ultimate campaign he and his buddies will be talking about up to their 40s when they decide to bring the band back together.

I'd be interested in seeing their demographics. The only people I know who play DCC are folks in their 40s and older. Their books are nostalgia crack for those of us who grew up with the game in the era of Basic D&D box sets. Without even discussing the rules, I almost think a good litmus test on whether someone will like DCC is to show them old Otis artwork. That or, perhaps, ask if they've ever dropped acid. ;-). [I'm KIDDING...kinda].

 

[Retreater]

Not sure if you every play using a VTT or digital app. But try playing DCC with a VTT or the Purple Sorcerer app.

Warhammer Fantasy is similar in its love of tables. When table lookup and rolling is automated it brings the great flavor without imposing friction in the flow of play.

I love the randomness of spell casting in DCC and Warhammer, but would hate dealing with it if I were playing pencil & paper only.

I am currently GMing two groups - one online (that is happily playing PF2 on Foundry VTT - and thank heavens for that automation) and the other in person (currently playing 4E D&D).
My preference for a game like DCC would be in-person for the old school vibe. I find the online format not conducive to concepts like thinking outside your character sheet, being fast and loose with the rules, etc.
I'd like to find an OSR adjacent game that works for my in-person, 4E group. Most of the players are teens or adults newer to the hobby and have expressed interest in classic gaming. However, they've shot down actual B/X or AD&D as being too "underpowered." I was hoping that DCC would be a good middle ground.

 

[Retreater]

I heartedly second the OAR series books, brining some classic D&D to 5e. Old good coffee table books with some nice history and essays.

I haven't had trouble using the Borderlands or Isle of Dread books - they're well organized and probably easier for my use than most of the WotC books.
Now the Judges Guild art books and reproductions - I totally agree with you that those would be a challenge. Which is sort of a shame, as I'd love to have Thracia reprinted (well, aside from my Necromancer Games 3.5 version). I recall that being mentioned as a future OAR release - but with Jennell's passing, I don't know if that's still planned.

My only complaint is that Goodman Games isn't licensed to release PDFs of them IIRC.

Just the WotC ones. The future ones (Dark Tower and Grimmtooth's) will have PDF releases.

The OAR books are a bit unweildly at the table. They are huge. You are paying for a updated for 5e adventure that was a think softcover booklet back in the day, but they have every version of it, plus history, essays, artwork etc. And they are so expensive, I feel like I have to baby them at the table.

Just the coffee table books. The actual OAR line is just 200ish page, standard sized hardcovers. I think they retailed for around $40 (with the exception of the two volume set of Elemental Evil). [I got mine cheaper on Amazon, like $25 each. But I suspect WotC may have pulled the license because they're out of print and expensive - but that's a very recent development. There were Black Friday deals last year, like 50% off.]

 

[aramis erak]

The one thing to keep in mind is that some of those odd-shaped dice couldn't pass a chi-squared test if you gave them the answers.

Zocchi's d7's do. I've tested mine, using a dice cup, 2d7, and two results tables. Both passed with a Chi well under 0.5 with N of 49.

I can't attest to any other of the funkies, but the d24, being a collection of pyramids on a d6 core has no reason it shouldn't - all the faces are the same shape and size.
d14, d16, d18 dipyramids are every bit as good as d10 dipyramids. The d16 is even a triangular face with zero flat spots on the rim, unlike the doubled-odd dipyramids (d10, d14, d18).
And d30's are of course quite fair - if they ever stop rolling off the table or you read what they show when on the floor.

THe least fair dice I've ever tested? Games Workshop branded d6's. ona 48 roll test, Chi came out to be over 2. Heavily biased to 6's. (one of them was a Chi of over 3. 48 rolls, not a single 1.)

Of course if someone wants me to test their dice, I'll happily do so for a fee...

 

[MNblockhead]

I am currently GMing two groups - one online (that is happily playing PF2 on Foundry VTT - and thank heavens for that automation) and the other in person (currently playing 4E D&D).
My preference for a game like DCC would be in-person for the old school vibe. I find the online format not conducive to concepts like thinking outside your character sheet, being fast and loose with the rules, etc.
I'd like to find an OSR adjacent game that works for my in-person, 4E group. Most of the players are teens or adults newer to the hobby and have expressed interest in classic gaming. However, they've shot down actual B/X or AD&D as being too "underpowered." I was hoping that DCC would be a good middle ground.

Yeah, I was thinking the same when I backed the Dying Earth boxed set. I loved it, but ended up choosing not to run it because I have to run my games remotely and trying to run the new rules in DE set without support in the DCC Foundry (or any VTT) was just going to be too much of a hassle. For an in-person game, I could prep quick references and make sure any magic users had their spells printed out etc. so avoid lots of time spent flipping through books. I actually feel DCC runs much better in a VTT or with software. For core rules, you have that in multiple VTTs and they are currently kickstarting a project for much better support in Roll20 that looks very promising....BUT....all the love is given to core. Lankmar support isn't as well developed and Dying Earth support is currently non-existent.

If you want a more old-school, pencil and paper experience, have you looked into Swords and Sorcery by Frog God Games? It has a decent sized community and a lot of support in terms of adventures. There is an active Discord community. It might be too basic for what you are looking for, but if you want a more streamlined and modernized version of D&D Basic, it is worth looking into.

 

[MNblockhead]

Zocchi's d7's do. I've tested mine, using a dice cup, 2d7, and two results tables. Both passed with a Chi well under 0.5 with N of 49.

I can't attest to any other of the funkies, but the d24, being a collection of pyramids on a d6 core has no reason it shouldn't - all the faces are the same shape and size.
d14, d16, d18 dipyramids are every bit as good as d10 dipyramids. The d16 is even a triangular face with zero flat spots on the rim, unlike the doubled-odd dipyramids (d10, d14, d18).
And d30's are of course quite fair - if they ever stop rolling off the table or you read what they show when on the floor.

THe least fair dice I've ever tested? Games Workshop branded d6's. ona 48 roll test, Chi came out to be over 2. Heavily biased to 6's. (one of them was a Chi of over 3. 48 rolls, not a single 1.)

Of course if someone wants me to test their dice, I'll happily do so for a fee...

I love me some dice geek discussions. What I would really love is for Lou Zocchi to release a video on the topic of these dice. His recorded gen con dice sales pitches are classic.

 

[Alzrius]

I love me some dice geek discussions. What I would really love is for Lou Zocchi to release a video on the topic of these dice. His recorded gen con dice sales pitches are classic.

Lou Zocchi is a fixture in our hobby. I managed to get his autograph on my "Lou Zocchi, Dice Magician" Lost Worlds gamebook, and it's one of my most prized RPG items.

 

[Retreater]

If you want a more old-school, pencil and paper experience, have you looked into Swords and Sorcery by Frog God Games? It has a decent sized community and a lot of support in terms of adventures. There is an active Discord community. It might be too basic for what you are looking for, but if you want a more streamlined and modernized version of D&D Basic, it is worth looking into.

Yeah. I have the blue version of "Complete" and the boxed set - but I didn't get the newest edition of Complete that was Kickstarted a year or so ago by Mythmere. I've also looked at the Quickstart versions of S&W Light and S&W Continual Light by Tenkar. (My background writing for Necromancer and Frog God put these on my radar.) I have run a megadungeon I was designing for S&W for another group - and I really liked the system. I think I prefer it to Old School Essentials.
The issue for this specific group of players is the perceived underpowered characters. They want to feel badass - and that's difficult when you have d4 or d6 HP, one spell at 1st level, limited to "swing and attack" (even if you CAN attempt other actions, if there aren't rules for it and it's not on the sheet - it seems primitive to them).
My wife - who is one of the more vocal critics of this style of play - doesn't want erratic decisions made by GM fiat to determine her chances for success. (She also won't play Warhammer because measurement and line of sight is mostly determined by player agreement.)

 

[Retreater]

Lou Zocchi is a fixture in our hobby. I managed to get his autograph on my "Lou Zocchi, Dice Magician" Lost Worlds gamebook, and it's one of my most prized RPG items.

I have a great Zocchi memory.
One GenCon I got a badge through my job that got me access to the floor on Wednesday. As I was approaching the Convention Center in the heat of August in downtown Indianapolis, I came across Colonel Lou attempting to carry several boxes and wheel a cart. I asked if I could help him with the load, and we walked together. He regaled me with stories and jokes as we went into the floor and I helped him set up his booth.
He's a treasure to the RPG community.