D&D General Ravenloft: Monsters vs Darklords

[Bedrockgames]

Maybe, but you're still supposed to take the setting seriously in general. It's not a comedy.

I agree it isn't a comedy. I just mean it is a bit hammy. It is populated with 'not Frankenstein', 'not dracula', etc. And it uses a lot of over the top language. And the text clearly has humor in it

 

[Remathilis]

Subjectively, sure. People have different preferences.

Oh for sure, but there have been some Ravenloft works that have tried a little too hard to be dark/edgy that it loses the fun of horror.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Oh for sure, but there have been some Ravenloft works that have tried a little too hard to be dark/edgy that it loses the fun of horror.

The line is pretty varied. Which works were you thinking of?

 

[Remathilis]

The line is pretty varied. Which works were you thinking of?

There were some 3e materials that tried to push the envelope regarding "no joy, only dark!" Style of design. I'll be honest, I didn't pay much attention to 3e era stuff (didn't own it, barely read it) to name names. I may also be mixing up some late 2e/ 3e era Netbook stuff that was a lot more casual in its pizza-cutter design (all edge and no point).

 

[Bedrockgames]

There were some 3e materials that tried to push the envelope regarding "no joy, only dark!" Style of design. I'll be honest, I didn't pay much attention to 3e era stuff (didn't own it, barely read it) to name names. I may also be mixing up some late 2e/ 3e era Netbook stuff that was a lot more casual in its pizza-cutter design (all edge and no point).

I agree very much on the 3E material. I didn't really like the tone they hit with the S&S books or with WOTC's 3E castle ravenloft book. Something about those S&S books just felt too serious and sombre to me. They did some interesting things with the setting in the core book. But it just wasn't the Ravenloft I wanted

The late 2E stuff could really be hit or miss. Around the time they start changing the layout to white pages, is when I remember feeling disconnected from the material. I don't recall off hand if it was super serious in that era. But I do remember not liking it, and there were moments where it felt to me like they were playing catch up with vampire in the late 90s

 

[Micah Sweet]

There were some 3e materials that tried to push the envelope regarding "no joy, only dark!" Style of design. I'll be honest, I didn't pay much attention to 3e era stuff (didn't own it, barely read it) to name names. I may also be mixing up some late 2e/ 3e era Netbook stuff that was a lot more casual in its pizza-cutter design (all edge and no point).

The 3e stuff was my favorite. It's where all the most detailed worldbuilding came in.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

But if you consider Ravenloft to be a theme of a game and not just a location where adventuring takes place... that's when @Minigiant 's point take hold. Ravenloft is about cursed and evil dark lords forever being tortured by dangling what they utmost want in front of them but never giving it to them. Sisyphus in gothic horror. And the entire rest of the land and people that Darklord rules over are all there merely in service of the torture the Dark Forces have put in place to tantalize the Darklord. And anything you play that doesn't have that thematic thread underpinning the adventure, the characters, and the locations could basically just be considered standard Gothic Horror. Which is fine if that's what people want to play, but it's not "Ravenloft".

This is some straight up badwrongfun nonsense, although not as aggressively so as Minigiant's take on it.

You can have all of those themes in Ravenloft without ever having a Darklord show up. Given that Ravenloft is just Gothic fiction with the names not even particularly well filed off, I'd say that Poe, Shelley, Stevenson and company all showed that it's 100% doable.

"You're not using the setting right unless you're doing it the way I and my fellow gatekeper say" is hot garbage. Negative internet points for both of you.

 

[humble minion]

The 3e stuff was my favorite. It's where all the most detailed worldbuilding came in.

Some of my very favourite Ravenloft material was the 3rd Ed gazetteers which really made the place feel lived in and real. But there was some dreadful drek published in that era too - the players option books Heroes of Light and especially Champions of Darkness being right at the top (bottom?) of the list. There was a fair bit of turmoil and politics happening around the direction of the line at the time, some major personnel changes midstream, and this resulted in the editorial approach being inconsistent to say the least.

 

[DEFCON 1]

This is some straight up badwrongfun nonsense, although not as aggressively so as Minigiant's take on it.

You can have all of those themes in Ravenloft without ever having a Darklord show up. Given that Ravenloft is just Gothic fiction with the names not even particularly well filed off, I'd say that Poe, Shelley, Stevenson and company all showed that it's 100% doable.

"You're not using the setting right unless you're doing it the way I and my fellow gatekeper say" is hot garbage. Negative internet points for both of you.

Um... excuse me? Did you not read the FIRST paragraph too? I said specifically there were TWO ways to look at it... and considering you made NO mention of what I wrote in the first section, either you skipped right past it, or you just conveniently ignored it so that you could allow yourself to get all high-and-mighty about the second one.

Jeezus hell. Trying to throw around the 'badwrongfun' and 'gatekeeper' tags in order to make your tenuous claims feel like they have merit? No. Sorry, but no. Just because you don't happen to agree with or like one of the sides doesn't mean me pointing out that that side exists is wrong. Especially because I happen to state quite clearly the other side being a completely valid way of looking at things too.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Hammer is very campy, but not a parody. It's not attempting to mock or satirize, but it's very over the top, theatrical, and kitsch. Much of classic horror is (be it Universal, Hammer or Corman). Likewise, much of D&D is solidly camp, though a large chuck of the player base thinks it is Serious Business[emoji3481]

Hammer was, for the most part, played straight, and most of the cheesiness was due to low budgets. But anyone who deliberately tries to emulate that low budget fog machine cheesiness is clearly aiming for comedy.