D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Minigiant]

have seen an argument for that.

Elves don't sleep

 

[Paul Farquhar]

no you kind of do.

Your point is only true if the nonmaxed character is ineffective, and they aren't ineffective.

Most of a character's power comes from class abilities. However, a character with higher stats will be able to reliably hit enemies with slightly higher ACs. Their spells will land slightly more often, etc. This means that min-maxed characters will be able to handle slightly more difficult encounters. Now, I suspect most DMs will adjust the difficulty on the fly (I know I do), so players probably won't actually notice any difference.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Elves don't sleep

cats sleep as they are obligate carnivores and are kept as pets, elves break those traits by not being fundamentally meat-dependent and not normally being pets.

Most of a character's power comes from class abilities. However, a character with higher stats will be able to reliably hit enemies with slightly higher ACs. Their spells will land slightly more often, etc. This means that min-maxed characters will be able to handle slightly more difficult encounters. Now, I suspect most DMs will adjust the difficulty on the fly (I know I do), so players probably won't actually notice any difference.

depends on the dm and you have not factored in the classic player drive to be effective

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The player is always effective, no matter what their character's stats. Otherwise the game ends early and everyone goes home unhappy.

 

[tetrasodium]

That’s all you have to say? A character can be decent starting with a 15 in their main stat (assuming point buy or standard array), but they’re definitely not as effective as someone with a 16/17. They have to wait 4 more levels to max out their primary stat. They miss 5% more, (which adds up a lot over time), and depending on the ability score, it can affect their survivability.

My point is still true. If the only part of the Elven identity that you think matters is a +2 to Dexterity, you are underestimating the thematic importance of their other mechanics. The +2 to Dexterity matters way more from a mechanical standpoint than it does a thematic one.

This is a problem 5e created. In using 2e style attribute boosting gear that reset an attrib to a predefined value rather than 3.x style +2/+4/+8 gear and 3.x style super meaningful attributes rather than pre3.x style attribs that give -1/+1 at like 6&15 you wind up with the worst of both.... Players feel that they must have a maxed primary attrib despite math intended for much less and the gm lacks realistic tools to bump Bob's lacking attribute if it's lacking enough to matter

 

[Hussar]

Players feel that they must have a maxed primary attrib

Please don't speak for all players.

My group certainly doesn't fit in this category.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think the point is "+2 Dex and Darkvision" is a terrible way to define an elf.

Tabaxi in Volos had "+2 Dex and Darkvision".

Are Elves cats?

That alone is a terrible way to define an elf. Which doesn't mean that elves shouldn't have +2 dex and darkvision.

 

[tetrasodium]

Please don't speak for all players.

My group certainly doesn't fit in this category.

It's an objective measurement. Pre-3.x attribute mods for -1/+1 were around 6&15 . Since 3.x -1/+1 has been at 8 & 12. Shrinking the dead zone of +0 from a nine pout spread to a four point spread puts dramatically more pressure on players to feel that they need to make optimized attribute choices because nearly every attribute will matter and matter more. Also the post of mine that you quoted to say this was literally quoting and responding to a post demonstrating the impact of how they reduced spread pressures players to feel that way, I'm bewildered that you would assume that your players were a group I was specifically talking about.

 

[Corinnguard]

Should WOTC recreate Drawven and Halfling subspecies?
Should WOTC create Orcs subspecies?
How fast do you want it?
Will you (re)create them if WOTC doesn't?
What are your ideas for them?

Isn't it ironic that once again we all have pretty much veered off topic? A little too ironic, don't you think?

 

[CreamCloud0]

On of the reasons I’ll always be somewhat inclined to species ASI is that I’m of the opinion that species should have enough of a mechanical impact to be able to influence your characters playstyle, to influence but not dictate, and while ASI do do that that doesn’t mean they’re the best way to, but i see these things as cumulative, it all adds together, and so while darkvision, trance, stonecunning, well they’re nice, but do they really change how you play? not really, I really liked goblin’s nimble escape because it made possible a distinct playstyle with that specific species.

I would much prefer something unique for elf and all the other species like ‘1/round when you take damage you can use a reaction to teleport 10ft away’, but in the meantime i'll take +2 dex