D&D General Social Pillar Mechanics: Where do you stand?

[Corinnguard]

This is precisely the same feeling I have with whenever some people make the same type of argument that Fighters need "more non-combat stuff to do" or that spellcasters "are the only ones who get to do cool stuff". This idea that just because certain characters at the table have the mechanics written down on their sheet (and thus will be the ones who end up using said mechanics)... everyone else doesn't or can't contribute to the game. Which to me is ridiculous.

It's important at this point to have a good DM encouraging everyone in the party to bring up ideas and solutions to the current problem at hand regardless of who has the better game mechanics on their character sheet. As each player brings something useful to the table and should have a chance to shine.

Now what about having Fighters getting to do some "cool stuff" and spellcasters getting more "non-combat stuff"?

 

[DEFCON 1]

It's important at this point to have a good DM

You could have just stopped your post right there and that would be the answer to pretty much every issue possible.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

This is precisely the same feeling I have with whenever some people make the same type of argument that Fighters need "more non-combat stuff to do" or that spellcasters "are the only ones who get to do cool stuff". This idea that just because certain characters at the table have the mechanics written down on their sheet (and thus will be the ones who end up using said mechanics)... everyone else doesn't or can't contribute to the game. Which to me is ridiculous.

It's important at this point to have a good DM encouraging everyone in the party to bring up ideas and solutions to the current problem at hand regardless of who has the better game mechanics on their character sheet. As each player brings something useful to the table and should have a chance to shine.

Now what about having Fighters getting to do some "cool stuff" and spellcasters getting more "non-combat stuff"?

Yes, yes!

True balance, IMO, is not about seeking parity of the mechanics among the PCs. True balance, IMO, is giving each player an opportunity to say what their character is doing in a scene - in other words, sharing the spotlight so that every player has a chance to have their PC contribute as they want. In combat, this is well established by initiative. In other scenes that lean more towards exploration and/or social interaction, this means the DM seeks input from each player before adjudicating a scene. In all pillars, it means players sharing ideas and having their PCs interact with one another.

 

[Corinnguard]

You could have just stopped your post right there and that would be the answer to pretty much every issue possible.

And miss an opportunity to do some Bardic Inspiration? Hmm...I am going to have my next character a Bard if I keep this up.

 

[Reynard]

I just re-read the Influence subsysytem for Pathfinder 2E and really like it as a way to do those kinds of scenes in an organized format.

 

[payn]

I just re-read the Influence subsysytem for Pathfinder 2E and really like it as a way to do those kinds of scenes in an organized format.

What source are those from?

 

[Reynard]

What source are those from?

The Gamemastery Guide, available here: Influence - Rules - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

 

[el-remmen]

the DM seeks input from each player before adjudicating a scene.

Yes. Something I have been doing in one of my games where people have not been contributing as much, and I and another player worry that it is because they lean too heavily on that one player's outspokenness (every session he is like "I am gonna talk less" and every session he found himself having to talk more to fill in the silences) is cribbing what I call "Session Initiative" from Shadowdark (I know it doesn't quite work this way, but 1. I have never actually played Shadowdark, and 2. I am adapting it to my needs).

Basically, at the beginning of every session I have everyone roll an unmodified d20 to determine "session initiative" and I use that list and order to check in with each player and what they are doing (or want to do) in each scene outside of combat. This works well both for times when everyone is calling out at once and for when no one is offering anything trying to be deferential to others. When combat actually comes up we still roll regular combat initiative.

 

[payn]

The Gamemastery Guide, available here: Influence - Rules - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

Found it. Yes, this looks like a direct evolution of the mechanics from War for the Crown back in PF1. What I really like about this sub-system is it allows other skills to enter the social encounter. A display of athletics might improve the standing with an NPC obsessed with gladiator games, or a knowledge geography check can help change the attitude of an NPC concerned with changing landscapes in the realm. So, if a PC lacks the typical social skills found in the game, they can apply other skills as they become relevant to the scene.

 

[Umbran]

Bring back Skill Challenges. That's where I stand.

I think I've been using a loose Skill Challenge approach to social scenes in D&D... since 2e? So, yeah, I agree, this is probably a good framework for them in D&D.

Even in fiction that has a face type character, like the A-Team, that had a character named Face, the members of the team still talks to others. "Howling Mad" Murdoch doesn't just sit there and say, "We have to wait until Face shows up because I'm not good at talking to others." That would make for a boring show and it makes for a boring RPG experience.

I think we can glean a bit from this example.
You are entirely correct, the rest of the Team didn't shy away from talking. However, whenever they had a particularly important bit, or a difficult con to play, they sent in Face.

The analogy might be that the wizard doesn't bother to hide much from a Mook, but there are points when they do actively step behind the fighter/paladin/barbarian/meatshield. And even then, while the brawn is up front, the wizard and cleric in the back assisting with spell support.

Same thing here - yes, there may be a face character, but our approach to the encounter ought to include effort by others, which is what the system doesn't hand us easily. That's where "Aid Another" or skill challenge formats probably come in.