D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Micah Sweet]

Where are the 5e stats for the Draconian species?

As a playable heritage? In several books available in the DMs Guild (Dragonlance Companion & Tasslehoff's Pouches of Everything come to mind), and personally in my homebrew document the Micahnomicon.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How?

Breath weapon vs. Death throes, for one. Also, they have varying degrees of flight dragonborn don't.

 

[Yaarel]

As a playable heritage? In several books available in the DMs Guild (Dragonlance Companion & Tasslehoff's Pouches of Everything come to mind), and personally in my homebrew document the Micahnomicon.

Are you saying, these homebrew stats for Draconian contradict the Dragonborn stats, and therefore the Draconians cant be Dragonborn?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Are you saying, these homebrew stats for Draconian contradict the Dragonborn stats, and therefore the Draconians cant be Dragonborn?

No, I'm saying dragonborn stats don't accurate represent draconians, and therefore they are not draconians.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The entry for draconians in Fizban’s Treasury of dragons indicates that they are not Dragonborn. I think that was an idea that was dropped once actual draconians were added to the game.

 

[Yaarel]

No, I'm saying dragonborn stats don't accurate represent draconians, and therefore they are not draconians.

4e defined Draconian as Dragonborn.

Similarly, 5e can define Draconian.

In the Critical Role setting, the Dragonborn retains a serpentine tail.

It is reasonable to say, some Dragonborn retain wings.

If I understand correctly, most Draconians are incapable of flight.

Dragonborn can exhibit whatever breathweapons are appropriate for the ancestry, potentially including a Draconic ancestry.


What makes Draconian stats difficult for 5e Dragonborn stats?

 

[Yaarel]

The entry for draconians in Fizban’s Treasury of dragons indicates that they are not Dragonborn. I think that was an idea that was dropped once actual draconians were added to the game.

I consider Fizbans "canon", albeit not Core. Canon enough for the Draconian.


Heh, I have the book and can get it if I have to, but am being lazy.

Judging by a quick search that finds a paraphrase, is the following correct in 5e Fizbans? The Draconian originates from shapeshifting a Metallic Dragon egg. The purpose is for an army of Evil, but they turn out to have free will and some choose Good. The Draconian species preexists the Dragonborn species by a "number of years". The Draconians explode when they die, dealing the breathweapon damage type. Some have wings.

If the above is true, can the following apply?

The same dragon magic that produced the Draconian also produced the Dragonborn. According to the playtest (UA3), the 2024 Dragonborn originates from shapeshifting the eggs from both Metallic and Chromatic dragons. Thus the Draconian is a "proto-Dragonborn" and is a kind of Dragonborn, relating to the Dragonborn in the Players Handbook.

Some Draconians have wings. But this is mostly irrelevant since most dont, and some with them are still incapable of flight. The ones who can truly fly might attain the ability at higher tiers. It is no problem if some Dragonborn retain a draconic tail or vestigial wings.

Draconians explode at death. Even this might be a cultural dragon magic custom, that a background can grant. (I want Dwarves that can petrify into stone at death, but this doesnt really affect any Dwarf stats.)

It seems feasible to use Dragonborn stats for a Draconian character, who is a variant Metallic ancestry.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It seems feasible to use Dragonborn stats for a Draconian character, who is a variant Metallic ancestry

I think that was always the point. Not to say Dragonborn are biologically the same thing as Draconians, but to say “if a player wants to play a draconian in the Dragonlance setting, rather than just saying no, they can use Dragonborn stats”. But that would be entirely at the DM’s discretion, which is an idea some players have trouble getting their heads round. The difference between “fudge it” and canon.

 

[Epic Meepo]

No, I'm saying dragonborn stats don't accurate represent draconians, and therefore they are not draconians.

Re-read the Draconian sidebar in the 2014 PHB. Draconians don't have the same stats as PHB dragonborn. The PHB dragonborn are one type of dragonborn which aren't draconians. The draconians are another type of dragonborn which aren't PHB dragonborn. The PHB doesn't list the full traits of the draconian type of dragonborn. It just says draconians have unspecified, unique traits instead of breath weapons.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Re-read the Draconian sidebar in the 2014 PHB. Draconians don't have the same stats as PHB dragonborn. The PHB dragonborn are one type of dragonborn which aren't draconians. The draconians are another type of dragonborn which aren't PHB dragonborn. The PHB doesn't list the full traits of the draconian type of dragonborn. It just says draconians have unspecified, unique traits instead of breath weapons.

Then where's the value of calling them dragonborn?