D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Minigiant]

Absolutely.

There is a version of Dark Sun that can be salvaged. It's going to look like the 4e version at minimum and undergo the same level of revision as 5e Ravenloft. The question is: is there enough of a market for this Nu Dark Sun amongst players who weren't fans of the OS DS, because you're going to lose them to the purity test.

The answer is no because even WOTC didn't attempt a watered down DS.

Some settings, genre/style combos, and worlds just aren't money makers as "fully compatible with 1st party content" content without an IP propping it up.

 

[FrozenNorth]

He is a private investigator, not a spy.

True, but since spy stories can easily be done in the noir style, he’s a more accessible reference than Alicia Huberman from Notorious.

 

[FrozenNorth]

No the issue is players feeling like that if they can't effectively shrug off the GM's efforts to correct misunderstandings with all the interest of a blown off shrugging speak to the hand then their GM is trying to micromanage "MY character & MY story". 5e is particularly bad here in how it avoids collaborating with others before chargen is complete & using passive voice/sentences when talking about the GM's role but active for the player creating the PC. If the players are encouraged to feel like the initial information as well as the more information are overstepping it's going to be poorly received by the time you get to "then give some more after that".

“I’m not the problem, it’s my ungrateful players” has a long and storied history. Particularly with a hearty side of “kids these days!”

 

[Hussar]

thing is, how often does the player ever ask what kind of campaign the GM wants to run and tweak their characters around that? far less often i'm guessing, the give and take is not equal here.

IME? All the time. Players make a character first then try to shoehorn that character into the campaign. And will resent any imposition or limitation by the dm on that creation.

 

[CreamCloud0]

IME? All the time. Players make a character first then try to shoehorn that character into the campaign. And will resent any imposition or limitation by the dm on that creation.

i think from your response you may have misinterpreted my statement?

 

[Distracted DM]

Fun game exercise...have the players make characters as normal. Then revamp the setting so that the player's race and class choices are now the centerpiece of the setting, and other options are removed or minimized.

Yeah that's definitely a cool idea- that's sort of how Dungeon World works iirc, the setting is made during character creation by everyone at the table answering questions.

I'm sort of "set" in my own setting nowadays, I don't have a lot of interest in running games in new or established settings unless it's to try out a new system... Or if it's something radically different that couldn't fit in my fantasy setting.

 

[tetrasodium]

“I’m not the problem, it’s my ungrateful players” has a long and storied history. Particularly with a hearty side of “kids these days!”

No, "ungrateful" has nothing to do with it & that's why I pointed out the root cause. Your response ignoring that demonstrates the hole a GM starts in when it comes to this. The way things are presented in the PHB causes it, I explained how & passive voice/sentence structure is something covered in the first couple years of elementary school.

 

[Hussar]

i think from your response you may have misinterpreted my statement?

My point is that when players will barely pay attention to the elevator pitch of a campaign, trying to give them more information isn’t going to make any difference.

Playing a Candlekeep Mysteries campaign where it’s a deep dive into Forgotten Realms lore and investigation? Let’s make Feywild native characters who have zero knowledge of the Sword Coast. That way we don’t have to have any actual connection to anything in the campaign.

Again it’s the endless stream of Man with no Name characters. Because why bother reading a setting document? That’s a whole four or five pages long. Ain’t got time for that.

Heh. But I’m not bitter at all.

I would hasten to add that this is hardly an edition thing. This has been my experience with DnD since day 1. Years of this across far too many players.

 

[Micah Sweet]

“I’m not the problem, it’s my ungrateful players” has a long and storied history. Particularly with a hearty side of “kids these days!”

"I'm not the problem, it's my tyrannical DM" has a long and storied history too. Insulting and dismissing those who disagree with you does as well, unfortunately.

 

[Mecheon]

Also like, let's not forget for all the talk of restricted settings or whatnot...

Dark Sun had basically every PHB race, and the two missing are easy to slot in as "Lost underground civilisation we didn't know was still around" in gnomes, and there was an orc in all but name in the Tarek so you could just go "Yeah half tarek whatever" as the tarek artwork was, just orcs and not hairless apes in the slightest.

A Dark Sun update is going to have all of the PHB races somewhere, and 4E is basically how it'd be done. I don't get where this wave of folks saying 4E Dark Sun wasn't liked is coming from as I recall it being fairly well received