D&D (2024) Comeliness and Representation in Recent DnD Art

[DrJawaPhD]

To be fair, someone had to go through a lot of effort to allow those options for us players, so kudos to Larian for giving us those options.

I'm sure the work wasn't free and significant effort was required (Larian kudos is deserved for sure!), but my main point was that it's s a hell of a lot easier to represent everyone when you get a slider bar to modify the image than when you get a single image to represent all possible scenarios. Many people seem to forget that obvious fact (lol whining about a wizard with glasses lol)

Perhaps my favorite was Star Wars the Old Republic which gave players four body types to choose from: slight build, medium build, large (muscular) build, and fat. See below for the fat body type for men and women in the game. Dude looks like a potato and lady smuggler there looks like what the kids today might call thicc. Girl got it goin' on.

Don't be using SWToR as an example, that was an egregious example of lazy coding driven by development timelines that prioritized getting a crappy game out on the market fast/cheaply vs putting out good product. Out of the hundreds of Star Wars races in the canon they refused to use anything that wasn't a human with different color skin and maybe a minor feature here or there like tiny horns or head tentacles. Yes I'm still bitter about not having Jawas as a playable race

 

[Charlaquin]

And I want to be absolutely clear, I am not in any way arguing against representation like it is commonly understood. There should definitely be diversity of ethnicities, body types, and all sort of other personal features (yes, even glasses!) But the fantasy art is still probably going to be some sort of "yassified" cool and glamorous version.

I hear you, though I also think it’s entirely possible to portray characters as good-looking in ways that are outside the bounds of conventional attractiveness. An easy example is like, overweight characters. Significant body fat is not generally considered desirable by modern Western beauty standards, but at the same time people can be (and many are) both overweight and highly attractive. And that would be pretty easy to include more of in fantasy art. You can apply the same concept to other features not conventionally considered attractive.

 

[Charlaquin]

If that's what it’s all about, that kinda fights against the concept of representation though, doesn't it?

Not necessarily. The thing about “selling the idealized vision of what a character should look like” is that it’s dependent on what the ideals of the person you’re trying to sell to are.

 

[Charlaquin]

1. I don't look like Conan the Barbarian.
2. My Barbarian characters do.
3. I wish I did.

There's zero issue with wanting the art to reflect our fantasy ideals.

Indeed. But there’s also zero issue with people wanting the art to reflect how they actually look. We can have both.

 

[Clint_L]

@Clint_L You deal with a lot of young folks gaming, right? Certainly more than the small group I do. Are there any things you think they would like to see more of about themselves? Anythings they really wouldn't? (Feel free to ignore, but I was struggling to think of who might have a broad, experienced, good perspective on it and you "won").

@Cadence I'm the winner! Yay!

Lessee. In general, my students tend to create characters that reflect more or less "Hollywood" versions of heroes. Not always, but mostly they describe their characters as basically buff and attractive. That said, they are far more likely to play more "monstrous" species than the older folks I play with, but even there they are usually attractive versions of monstrous creatures. Some students do go beyond that. I've had two students intentionally create characters with disabilities, for example, one of whom was absolutely thrilled when I was able to provide a miniature of her character in a wheelchair (she sometimes uses one herself). And some will describe their character as being heavier, or having scars. But that is unusual.

They care a lot less about gender than we did as kids - we just always played characters that were the same gender as ourselves, but my students will create opposite gender or non-binary characters freely and nobody cares. There are almost as many female identifying students playing D&D as male, and non-binary kids are over-represented (in general, we have a significant overlap with Pride club). So in that sense there is more diversity. Same with skin colouration.

But the thing is, even though students seem on one level to still buy into media representations of attractiveness, they are also vehemently critical of media representations of attractiveness. It seems to me like there's some cognitive dissonance.

 

[Charlaquin]

It is very much opposites most of the time:

1. Having art that is representative of the people who play.
2. Having art that is representative of what people want their PCs to look like.

Unless you want your PC to look like you, not simply represent you, the two don't really meet well IME.

I mean, it’s not always about wanting your PC to look like you, (though it can be). Rather, sometimes it’s about wanting your PC to have a particular thing in common with you. Some people have an easier time identifying with a character who shares a certain trait with them, even if they are otherwise quite different. My partner has a lame leg, and their D&D characters almost always have a physical disability of some kind. Just makes it easier for them to get into the character’s head, and they enjoy roleplaying the different ways the characters’ disabilities impact their lives as adventures.

Of course, both types can be present in the game.

True! And I’d say we not only can, but should, accommodate both.

 

[Clint_L]

As a hardcore miniatures collector, I am always on the lookout for miniatures that reflect diverse body types. I have nothing against sword-wielding warriors built like Conan, but I already have dozens. Same for lithe elves, beefy half-orcs, and so on. Lately, we are seeing a bit more body diversity in miniatures, but more would be very welcome!

 

[Charlaquin]

By all means, have barbarians running around sky-clad or wearing war paint only, but no chainmail bikinis.

(a picture that is explicitly of barbarians)

I see no discrepancy here.

 

[Clint_L]

I mean, it’s not always about wanting your PC to look like you, (though it can be). Rather, sometimes it’s about wanting your PC to have a particular in common with you. Some people have an easier time identifying with a character who shares a certain trait with them, even if they are otherwise quite different. My partner has a lame leg, and their D&D characters almost always have a physical disability of some kind. Just makes it easier for them to get into the character’s head, and they enjoy roleplaying the different ways the characters’ disabilities impact their lives as adventures.

Yeah, I want to big up this point. I know some folks on this forum have expressed confusion over why someone would want to create a character with a disability. I think those of us who are used to seeing ourselves represented do not always appreciate how demoralizing it is to seldom do so. And how inspiring it can be. As I mentioned, I had a student with some pretty significant physical challenges, who wanted her character to have similar challenges and still be an awesome hero. That meant everything to her.

 

[Charlaquin]

Context is very important for me. If I'm watching a movie about Arthurian knights, it's going to be quite jarring to see Morgan le Fay rocking a chainmail bikini. For Red Sonja? I'm fine with it. Silly? Oh, yeah. I used to be of the mind that chainmail bikinis had no place in D&D. Like you, I just thought they were kind of dumb and didn't belong. But there have been some changes over the last few years. We're supposed to accept that a 35 pound halfling is just as strong as a 280 pound goliath. That's both silly and dumb. So why not chainmail bikinis?

Because strong halflings are silly and dumb in a way that enables people to play the characters they want to play. Chainmail bikinis are silly and dumb in a way that makes women who might otherwise enjoy the game feel uncomfortable around the people who play it.