How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[pemerton]

I've only ever had rotating scene framing authority in Gmless games

I play two-player shared GMing Burning Wheel. It works pretty well, though it generally depends upon there being a "lead" character in each scene, so that it is clear who - in that stretch of play - is the GM, and who is the player.

 

[pemerton]

For example, if they're walking the six days it takes to get from Torcha to Karnos, each in-game morning I'll narrate the weather. This gives them the opportunity to decide to change course and go somewhere else, or to have an in-character discussion, or whatever

But what about changes in the weather part-way through the day? Maybe the wind dies down for a bit, and then picks up again. Or maybe it stops raining. Maybe the clouds even part, allowing the sun to shine through.

By eliding all this, aren't you depriving your players of the opportunity to respond to it?

 

[Corinnguard]

Why do you say “would” here? That implies there’s only one way to handle this.

Beyond this, it would take someone with more in depth knowledge to know what kind of runic circle it happened to be, how it could be activated/deactivated, and what kind of runes it used.

Wouldn't you turn to someone more knowledgeable on a particular subject if you could?

 

[Lanefan]

My more recent BW play has involved rotating GMing - as in, I do the GM's job for my friend's character (the necromancer Thoth) and he does the GM's job for my character (the Dark Elf Aedhros) - when both our characters are in the same scene, we alternative or divvy it up as makes sense, depending on whose issues are at stake.

If you and he are the only two players in your game, that I think makes your table something of an outlier. That you bounce back and forth GMing the same PCs, even more so.

Also - and perhaps more relevant to these discussions - having done a lot of one-on-one play during the covid years (mostly as DM, sometimes as player), I've learned that there's a big difference between solo play and group play; in that the solo player gets to do everything and make all the decisions for the party. Far more input, and thus far more of a potential to feel (or want to feel) some ownership over the setting and-or story.

It's a very different DMing experience also, in that as well as being the DM I also kinda have to provide a second voice (via in-party NPCs) for the player to bounce ideas off of, much more than I ever have to do when DMing a more typical group. In a more usual group, any party NPCs can often fade into the background somewhat when they are not needed for anything specific; e.g. if the PCs want to hole up for a while and make plans, the NPC (or hench) is almost always the one to stand watch outside the door.

 

[Lanefan]

But what about changes in the weather part-way through the day? Maybe the wind dies down for a bit, and then picks up again. Or maybe it stops raining. Maybe the clouds even part, allowing the sun to shine through.

By eliding all this, aren't you depriving your players of the opportunity to respond to it?

If it's a significant change, I mention it and they can respond; even more so if the conditions might slow or interrupt their travel.

And weather's a big deal in my game at the moment: over just the last couple of in-game years the setting seems to be plunging into a near-instantaneous (in geological terms) ice age, causing no end of disruption and headaches (and famine!) for a great many people. There's a reason this is happening but the players/PCs are still a long way from figuring it all out.

 

[Corinnguard]

If you and he are the only two players in your game, that I think makes your table something of an outlier.

Here's what makes The Burning Wheel an outlier for those of us in the D&D community:

From Wikipedia:

Players generate a detailed background history for their characters, along with core motivations and ethics (Instincts and Beliefs) that connect them to the storyline and to the other player characters (PCs). Story develops organically rather than being pre-scripted, as a number of the game mechanics exist to prevent the gamemaster (GM) from dominating the game's direction and to help promote co-operation and trust between the players. (This is distinct from co-operation among the characters, who may argue or fight within the context of the rules.) Examples of such mechanics include pre-negotiated roll or scene outcomes, the 'Let it Ride' rule, and the absence of hidden information.
D&D and The Burning Wheel do have one thing in common.

The GM is encouraged to create problems and challenges that specifically probe and test the Beliefs and Instincts of the PCs, and as a consequence characters frequently undergo significant change in their goals and attitudes over time.

I am not sure if today's GMs in 5e D&D really dominate the game direction so much as they ask the players as to where they want to go next or do next in an adventure. They let the players decide for themselves on either of these two issues and thus promote the very same thing mentioned here in The Burning Wheel RPG. Co-operation and trust.

As for hidden information, I think it's an essential facet within D&D. Could D&D be what it is today if there was an absence of hidden information?

 

[Reynard]

The GM does the framing but must do so in regard to established player character beliefs (and with the sole purpose to challenge those beliefs). This is explicit in the text. The game both establishes the GM's authority over scene framing and constrains it to addressing the enumerated belief statements players have listed for their characters on their character sheet.

How does that work? What are player character "beliefs" in this context? Established fiction?

 

[Reynard]

You can't really take us and our knowledge as what the world at large commonly possesses. We're fantasy gamers. We have essentially studied the folklore and mythology through gameplay and often as a real life hobby. We are also fairly highly educated in general. Go to the midwest and ask 1000 random people what a runic circle is and I'll wager less than 10% will give you a correct answer. Go to a less educated country that the United States and that number will fall.

You don't think people that live in parts of the country where they still put hex signs on barns would understand the concept of a magic circle?

 

[Corinnguard]

These are Hex Signs, a form of Pennsylvania Dutch Folk Art

 

[Corinnguard]

And this is just one example of a Runic Circle. This is a Viking Runic Circle of Protection and Guidance.