D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Belen]

I would expect all of these to factor in to their preferences. Literary stuff seems to be moving in similar directions as well, e.g. what I've heard about the Percy Jackson books, the Hunger Games books, the Locked Tomb series, and more.

It is an interesting market. SF&F used to drive book sales but the genre is shrinking. This may have to do with a lot of the material that used to be considered "adult" SF&F is moving to young adult sections or vanity publishers like Amazon eating up the market. I am not sure.

I find it very difficult to discover new books that I will like and much of it seems written to the same template.

I may also just be getting old.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nope, it was originally in Greyhawk. It was moved.

Ok, fair enough. Given the isolation, I doubt is was well-noticed.

 

[Remathilis]

Nope, it was originally in Greyhawk. It was moved.

Much like how the Keep on the Borderlands and Blackmoor both exist on Mystara and Oerth, proving how both were created with focused, specific creative visions in mind and were absolutely not just made with whatever things the designers thought was cool at the moment.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Kara Tur was intended to be Oerth. It got put on Faerun because after Gary's ouster, the intention was to bury Greyhawk and promote the Realms. Hmmm that sounds familiar. Damn WotC!, er TSR!

So how about this; you find one piece of evidence that Greyhawk was not intended to be a kitchen sink, and I'll concede. I've already surrendered that I don't have the inclination to find evidence it was, so all you have to do is find an example of something that wasn't made for a different specific setting (so no kenders or muls or the like). One example of something from the core books or the generic supplements (like Unearthed Arcana) was never supposed to be on Greyhawk.

Give you a hint, you're not going to find it in the post 2000 Greyhawk material.

Because all I hear is a bunch of classic rock fans annoyed that they are playing Pearl Jam in between Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones tracks.

Glad to see you're not doubling-down on the rude metaphors.

Look, I don't know what Gary's intentions were for Greyhawk. I'm just saying your expectations and assumptions are no more correct than those of others. Neither of us having evidence does "not" prove either you or me right.

 

[Parmandur]

I seem to remember one of the 1E/2E books mentioning dwarves could become Wizards, but they had to give up their magic resistance to do so (and a very low level limit as I recall). Trying to find it.

As far as limits for Greyhawk, about the only one I tend to uphold is gunpowder not working. Even that, though I've subverted as my 3E group was shocked to run across a Sea Prince privateer vessel armed with cannons (which they captured after an epic battle). The cannons turned out to be legendary weapons, dedicated to Myrlund - couldn't be reproduced, and the alchemical smokepowder it used was sourced from another plane.

Anyways, my point is limiting options is fine, but if your group doesn't find it fun, there's ways around it, and it doesn't cause the game to melt into a puddle of uselessness.

The PHB will now have guns as standard equipment, do chalk that up as another change.

 

[Parmandur]

I see this stated as gospel, but I have never seen anywhere in the old books where this is true. Yes, AD&D (and Greyhawk) has a lot of inspiration from sword and sorcery, but it pulls plenty from other fantasy as well. Races, rangers and monsters from Tolkien. The monk from kung fu movies. All manner of monsters from Greek and Norse myth. Vampires and werewolves from gothic horror. I'll admit my knowledge of Greyhawk is limited to 2e and later, but I've never seen this "S&S theme" expressed. Not in the way Eberron pulp or Ravenloft horror is expressed. The first time the notion of Greyhawk being the S&S was expressed overtly was in 5e.

Which is why I find it to be more a retcon than a design paradigm. If there is some grand statement of intent that Greyhawk was supposed to be S&S flavored D&D, it a) failed and b) is well obscured. What Greyhawk feels to me is a kitchen sink setting inspired by the stuff Gary was familiar with, just like every other DM creating a home setting. My first setting was inspired by Star Wars, X-Men and Final Fantasy stuff, but I would not call it a "Sci-fi/comic book/video game" themed setting.

If you have some definitive proof Gary wanted Greyhawk to be the S&S D&D setting, I'd love to see it.

I mean, I think saying that Greyhawk as it existed until 1988 (when stuff beyond the original and rxpanded Setting started coming) was an "Appendix N" Setting is true, but also meaningless because saying that Gary Gygax' personal list of literary influences were an influence on Gary Gygax's Setting is tautological.

 

[Parmandur]

Funny, I've never seen Eberron spelled that way

Touché

 

[Parmandur]

Nope, it was originally in Greyhawk. It was moved.

That was OK, because TSR did that in the 80's when everything in D&D was perfect and unsullied by corporate greed, or something.

 

[Parmandur]

Because all I hear is a bunch of classic rock fans annoyed that they are playing Pearl Jam in between Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones tracks.

OK, to be fair I am pretty annoyed that Blink 182 and Weezer appear on basically Classic rock stations now.

 

[deganawida]

OK, to be fair I am pretty annoyed that Blink 182 and Weezer appear on basically Classic rock stations now.

You and me both.