I mean, given how short they both are, there should be room for both?
D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?
- Thread starter Levistus's_Leviathan
- Start date
I mean, given how short they both are, there should be room for both?
It’s like Tetris.
I would totally play Tetris with the short races, but I believe that's been banned in most states.
jmartkdr2
Hero
Everything's legal in New Jersey
(Haven't read the rest of discussion, just responding to the OP's question).
I don't hate gnomes, but they don't have a strong niche in my mind. They're sort of halfway between halflings and elves, but not distinct enough from either one to feel like their own thing. This leads to me overlooking them a lot of the time.
Going back now to read and see how many others have said similar things.
Bacon Bits
Legend
I don't hate them. But I don't find them very interesting.
The only gnome-specific trope that I really like is the tinker or artificer or mad scientist. And I think goblins do it better as soon as you relax stat bonuses. I think warforged are more interesting when they do it, too.
The gnome illusionist mostly died with 2e AD&D because illusion magic was either totally useless and never worked, or else completely overpowered and always worked. Adjudicating illusions used to be one of the DM rite of passages that revealed just how little the game actually taught you about some aspects of design while expecting you to also know that design. Now illusion magic is so narrow and rigidly designed that it basically never comes up. They can't survive any scrutiny at all.
For the most part, gnomes feel like dwarves when they want to be and halflings when they want to be and elves when they want to be. I think that's boring, because they're reliant on being poorly defined. We already have that in a race and it's called human.
However, I think hobgoblins basically fall into the same trap of not really standing out. They could just be orcs, especially now without strict humanoid alignments. Goblins-orcs-bugbears would work just as well as goblins-hobgobins-bugbears does. Plus as time goes on, the playable hobgoblins we see often have this whole "noble savage" undertone that I really dislike.
The only gnome-specific trope that I really like is the tinker or artificer or mad scientist. And I think goblins do it better as soon as you relax stat bonuses. I think warforged are more interesting when they do it, too.
The gnome illusionist mostly died with 2e AD&D because illusion magic was either totally useless and never worked, or else completely overpowered and always worked. Adjudicating illusions used to be one of the DM rite of passages that revealed just how little the game actually taught you about some aspects of design while expecting you to also know that design. Now illusion magic is so narrow and rigidly designed that it basically never comes up. They can't survive any scrutiny at all.
For the most part, gnomes feel like dwarves when they want to be and halflings when they want to be and elves when they want to be. I think that's boring, because they're reliant on being poorly defined. We already have that in a race and it's called human.
However, I think hobgoblins basically fall into the same trap of not really standing out. They could just be orcs, especially now without strict humanoid alignments. Goblins-orcs-bugbears would work just as well as goblins-hobgobins-bugbears does. Plus as time goes on, the playable hobgoblins we see often have this whole "noble savage" undertone that I really dislike.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
I am so impressed on page 53 we're still talking about gnomes. I figured the topic had to be something obscure or dominated by a massive back and forth fight by now.
I've never in all these years played a gnome for more than a couple of sessions, but I like them and would happily play them.
I've never in all these years played a gnome for more than a couple of sessions, but I like them and would happily play them.
Argyle King
Legend
I'm aware that the forest gnome is there.
Something just seems off about the whole thing. I feel like D&D Gnomes are simultaneously trying to cover too much identity while also having none.
I also feel that there's not enough effort put into exploring haberdashery via gnomes.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
In 4e, the Orc associates with Ogre and Troll.
Etymologically, Orc and Ogre are the same word, deriving from Orco, a human-eating giant.
Italian Orco comes from Latin Orcus. Orcus is the Roman underworld, equivalent to the D&D Shadowfell.
It relates to the Greek word Orkos meaning an "oath", and the name of a Greek monster that comes from the subterranean realm of the dead to any punish humans that violate oaths.
For D&D, the reallife mythic concepts:
• Orc = Ogre
• Giant creature type
• Shadowfell planar origin (Gruumsh cult faction)
• Punish oath-breakers
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