D&D General Ignoring the rules!

[tetrasodium]

I'm not here to argue the merits of XP vs Milestone. That is a topic not worth debating, as the pros and cons of each are widely known.

I am only stating that in-game "solutions" to out of game problems, are always a bad idea. They simply don't work. They create animosity and just kick the issue down the road.

EDIT: Blue largely said what I wanted to, but much better xD.

The debate is why I simply embedded the video rather than rehashing it. Milestones aren't the universal solution you cite, they just change the problems. What you see as kicking the can down the road I see as sweeping the problem under the rug.

Hard disagree because it's all intent and how you are using it.

You mention the reason you are avoiding Milestone is because your problem player would show up late without feeling a penalty.

So you are moving from a system where everyone progresses in lockstep to one where a player exhibiting behavior you don't like will progress slower.

Lie to yourself if you'd like, but "if you do this behavior I dislike your character will fall behind" objectively is being used as a punishment. Regardless if XP can be use in a non-punishment way, the specifics of what you laid out is absolutely punishing them.

Question, you said: "Experience points mean that I as the GM don't need to consider doing anything to punish "Steve" & nobody needs to feel slighted."

If you told your players, including "Steve", I switched to XP because I don't want those who show up late to keep up with the rest of the party, do you think they would be slighted knowing your actual intent? I think they might.

You have it backwards. I prefer to reward playing the game. Playing the game more results in more rewards.

 

[DinoInDisguise]

The debate is why I simply embedded the video rather than rehashing it. Milestones aren't the universal solution you cite, they just change the problems. What you see as kicking the can down the road I see as sweeping the problem under the rug.

I'm not debating anything. Never said anything of the sort. The entire premise of my comments were calling out punishment mechanics. I even stipulated in the first one that XP isn't inherently the problem. And in the second one I said straight up this isn't about milestone vs XP. I also never cited milestone for anything outside of saying I wasnt debating that.

I will duck out of this conversation at this point, as it's clear my presence is unhelpful.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I don't use XP, and haven't for a few versions now. I ignore having a free hand if they're holding weapon and/ or shield. I don't pay any attention to alignment for PCs other than general no evil. I'm also not too concerned about swapping weapons or stowing a shield before climbing.

I'm sure I'm probably forgetting something, but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.

Anecdote Warning: I once had an argument with a GM about climbing while holding a shield. Now, I'm not talking about rock climbing here, either - this guy claimed that it was next to impossible to climb a ladder with a shield on.

So... (not in-game, mind, I don't argue with my GM during the game past a sentence or two, usually in an "are you sure that <this> is your ruling?" way, because if the answer to that is "yes" then that is the answer for that game, regardless of what I think). WherewasI? So... I got out a ladder, and a garbage can lid, and a freaking broom, and I ran up the ladder with no hands at all.

And I should think that my Level 6 Fighter ought to be better than ME at things!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

But to answer the OP: I almost always make my own monsters, and often on-the-fly. I do a LOT of research on the subject - but I just generally don't like a monster statblock. Any of them. They all seem to be either too much or too little, usually both.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I'm not debating anything. Never said anything of the sort. The entire premise of my comments were calling out punishment mechanics. I even stipulated in the first one that XP isn't inherently the problem. And in the second one I said straight up this isn't about milestone vs XP. I also never cited milestone for anything outside of saying I wasnt debating that.

I will duck out of this conversation at this point, as it's clear my presence is unhelpful.

I think you were doing fine. Don't be discouraged if people disagree with you, in particular when they misunderstand you. It happens. Forums are entertaining and have their uses, but it's not very easy to make yourself properly understood.

 

[overgeeked]

Wow. So many. Let’s see…

AD&D. Most of them that aren’t part of PC classes or spells. Gender-based stat mods, gone. Race-based class and level limits, gone. Multiclassing and dual classing, gone. Equipment still costs the same, but the weapon vs armor type, damage for large creatures, etc…all gone. XP for killing monsters, gone.

B/X or OSE. Nothing.

4E. Multiclassing and hybrid, gone. Skill challenges, gone. Replaced with clocks and countdowns. Replaced the full combat rules with clocks and countdowns for filler fights.

Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG. Spell duels. Ugh.

5E. Inspiration; BIFTs; multiclassing and feats; XP; official backgrounds; monster stat blocks; monster and encounter design; CR; banned several spells, races, classes, and subclasses; RAW rests; most magic items…all gone and more besides. Some of that’s replaced with house rules. Most not.

 

[DinoInDisguise]

I think you were doing fine. Don't be discouraged if people disagree with you, in particular when they misunderstand you. It happens. Forums are entertaining and have their uses, but it's not very easy to make yourself properly understood.

I appreciate the kind words.

I just felt like my contribution to the discussion had run it's course. I had made my point twice, and rehashing it wasn't going to be productive. The internet has enough senseless bickering, I don't need to add to that.

EDIT: I'm not discouraged.

 

[cbwjm]

Sometimes I feel like I must be one of the few people that doesn't play with problematic players. I usually use XP, both encounter and milestone, and normally apply it to the party rather than the individual so everyone stays the same level anyway.

I've a friend that levelled us up when he felt it fit the story, not sure if he was using XP as a general guide while doing so.

 

[DinoInDisguise]

Sometimes I feel like I must be one of the few people that doesn't play with problematic players. I usually use XP, both encounter and milestone, and normally apply it to the party rather than the individual so everyone stays the same level anyway.

I've a friend that levelled us up when he felt it fit the story, not sure if he was using XP as a general guide while doing so.

I largely feel the same.

I've only been here a short time. Less then a week. And I get the sense that I'm in the minority. I play a cooperative storytelling game with like-minded people. Many are randoms off the internet that I filtered to fit my preferences. And I've simply never run into many of the issues I see discussed here. Many of the topics are almost foreign to me. Some claiming the system is deeply flawed for an issue I've never had come up.

I almost feel like I'm playing a different game, its a bit surreal.

 

[Blue]

The debate is why I simply embedded the video rather than rehashing it. Milestones aren't the universal solution you cite, they just change the problems. What you see as kicking the can down the road I see as sweeping the problem under the rug.

You have it backwards. I prefer to reward playing the game. Playing the game more results in more rewards.

That's a fine rationalization. And XP does do that.

But let's look at what you said before.

After reading the last eleven pages I'm going to add a rule I ignore... Milestones.

While milestones might work great for you and your group, others find it tedious and pointless having to regularly wait for or rebalance the session plans just because Bob knows being late or skipping again won't cost him progress.

Your stated intent for the rule change was "find it tedious and pointless having to regularly wait for or rebalance the session plans just because Bob knows being late or skipping again won't cost him progress."

Again, intent matters. And while XP does what you are claiming up top, but again it seems you put it in place as punishment for those who were late or skipping. You don't want them to progress as fast as the others. You've told us that's your motivation.

But it's your motivation. If you say "The problem player getting less wasn't part of my consideration", we'll have no choice but to believe you.