Any Supers Game that feels Super?

[Starfox]

I'm amazed at the number of options here!

 

[aramis erak]

In the last 5 years, I've run a number of oneshots of MHRP. I've run two campaigns of Sentinel Comics the Roleplaying Game. I've considered running Advanced Marvel Super Heroes, but just couldn't work up a pitch that didn't feel like it would be better in either MHRP or SCRPG.

I'll note that while I love Hero system, I never use it for supers; it's the best customizable fantasy game, tho'...

I also ran a Force and Destiny game set in the "Dark Times"... and it felt a good bit like a supers game. If one likes the Star Wars/Genesys engine, it's a reasonable option.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

I’m not particularly participating in this thread because my favorite- HERO- is clearly not going to meet the needs of the OP. However, I have been reading along to see if I’VE missed adding one I might like to my collection.

You kind of have to do that these days, right? Back before, say, 2000 I could confidently say that I was at least familiar with every supers RPG out there even if I'd never played some of them. Not in 2024. The proliferation of rule sets in the last couple of decades has made that nearly impossible, and stuff flies under the radar so easily on sites like DTRPG. Always need to keep an eye on what other folks are talking about if you want to avoid missing stuff, even within this fairly small subgenre.

Just imagine the insanity of trying to keep up with every new fantasy TTRPG release...

I fault it a bit for its character creation system making it harder to create a hero you have a preconceived vision for (vs a more randomized approach).

Most of the groups I've played Sentinels with (and all the ones I've run for) use Method Two (ie, the not-random one) by default, although if you're struggling for inspiration the random one is also a legit choice. The Method One "Guided By the Dice" approach is helpful for newer players (it greatly reduces the number of decision points) but as you said it's not great if you have a character concept in mind already. I have a particular dislike for the idea of rolling to determine your personality, especially since it's a 2d10 roll and doubles can really shaft you pretty hard. We used to use Guided when we in a rush (ie in pickup games) and it is faster than Method Two even for vets, but honestly if you need the time that badly just using a pregen (either official or any of the numerous homebrews floating around) is even quicker.

Admittedly, some character concepts are a strain to make even with Method Two, but there's the "secret" Method Three freeform option. I've played/run quite a bit and only seen two players come up with a hero that needed to go that route (with GM okay), and even those just needed to take a couple of powers and/or qualities that a Method Two build couldn't have due to menu restrictions. I think one of them had a custom homebrew Yellow ability too, but I've seen those crop up somewhat more often (again with GM okay) when tweaking characters at the point you earn a collection.

In a perfect world (or a second edition, which seems highly unlikely) the whole CharGen system would be more streamlined and rely less on arbitrary restrictions from 80 different menus while retaining a simpler approach with fewer decisions needed for new players, but even the existing one seems preferable to the common "archetype" approach you see in many supers games.

 

[TheHand]

In a perfect world (or a second edition, which seems highly unlikely) the whole CharGen system would be more streamlined and rely less on arbitrary restrictions from 80 different menus while retaining a simpler approach with fewer decisions needed for new players, but even the existing one seems preferable to the common "archetype" approach you see in many supers games.

Yes, in the games we played, we used a combo of the methods in the book, but what you describe is really what my group wanted. We play supers fairly intermittently, but if we had a more regular game running I'd probably take a stab at building something like that.

In know you're also familiar with "Cortex" Marvel Hero... how does it compare with Sentinels? Are there are any parts you'd port from one game system to the other if you had a magic wand?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You manage to get HERO to be fast and furious? I'm impressed. Every system works better once you know it well. We tried HERO, but we never got to the point where it flowed for us.

(Emphasis mine.)

I’m not sure what you mean here.

I started with HERO back with its first edition, when it was called Champions. So yeah, I’m pretty familiar with it. For me, the attraction has always been its flexibility- I haven’t had a PC concept I couldn’t model in it. It’s become sort of a RPG Rosetta Stone for me.

Part of my embrace of the game was the realization that, for 95% of situations in play, everything I needed was on my character sheet. In an actual play session, you almost don’t need the rulebook.

 

[GuardianLurker]

One supers game that I haven't seen mentioned yet is Wild Talents/Godlike. Godlike, the original version is WW2 supers. Wild Talents has a number of settings that are fairly interesting. It's light on the Narrative mechanics, but it's loose and quick enough in resolution that it (almost) doesn't matter. It works best as a low-end supers game, though. It can do high-power, but it gets ... wonky.

Wearing the Cape is another one I haven't seen mentioned. It's based on the "Wearing the Cape" novels (which I recommend) for the setting. It's FATE-derived if I remember correctly, though.

 

[timbannock]

Yes, in the games we played, we used a combo of the methods in the book, but what you describe is really what my group wanted. We play supers fairly intermittently, but if we had a more regular game running I'd probably take a stab at building something like that.

In know you're also familiar with "Cortex" Marvel Hero... how does it compare with Sentinels? Are there are any parts you'd port from one game system to the other if you had a magic wand?

They really offer a lot of the same stuff in different ways, if that makes sense. In Sentinels, you fiddle with the reading the dice results a bit (mid, high, low) whereas in MHR you fiddle with what SFX to apply to the results (spending Plot Points to add more dice to the total or various other effects).

IMO, MHR does NPCs and environmental threats (traps, hazards, etc.) a bit more easily, because you build them in the same way as characters. The escalation mechanics of Sentinels felt like it made creating those things a bit more complicated and opaque; it felt harder to balance. But that same added complexity does often result in more wild and interesting situations, so it's not solely a con against the game.

Sentinels' escalation mechanic really is the one thing I absolutely love. It can't be ported 1:1 to Cortex, but Cortex -- especially if you have the Cortex Prime Game Handbook -- already has mods you can add that would do similar things: Scale dice, timed tests, scene SFX, or scene Assets/Complications/Distinctions (which are best described in the Cortex community release Xine #1 over at xine.ink).

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

Yes, in the games we played, we used a combo of the methods in the book, but what you describe is really what my group wanted. We play supers fairly intermittently, but if we had a more regular game running I'd probably take a stab at building something like that.

I've thought about it myself, but it seems like a daunting project. Still, maybe someday. If nothing else we've been collecting some homebrew patches for the more wonky abilities out there, both hero and villain.

In know you're also familiar with "Cortex" Marvel Hero... how does it compare with Sentinels? Are there are any parts you'd port from one game system to the other if you had a magic wand?

I have a hard time judging them fairly because I didn't actually manage to play MHR until after I'd been doing SCRPG long enough to get comfortable with it, so MHR always feels a little off to me, kind of a funhouse mirror effect despite it being the older of the two. Still, I can think of a few things:

- I like the way MHR (and Cortex in general) lets you use more than just three dice in a roll, but at the same time I wonder if the fixed-number mods of SCRPG aren't a more elegant way to approach that - and SCRPG's "mod game" is really impactful in play and makes "support characters" who rarely take Attack actions of their own quite viable, especially ones that can affect multiple targets or hand out persistent mods.

- MHR does a little more to spell out what its power SFX do mechanically than SCRPG, which leaves them purely narrative. Whether that's a plus or minus for either depends on how comfortable the table is at narrative improv and how people feel about voluntarily limiting themselves to stay on-concept. Some SCRPG powers are potentially really, really broad as written - what can't you justify with Power Suit or Inventions, for ex - and it's left up to the table to negotiate the answers on them. Great when you can all agree, not so much when you can't.

- I think the Doom Pool and GYRO tracker manage to be surprisingly close to one another in how well they build drama in a scene. SCRPG is more predictable in how things ramp up while MHR is much harder to "read" from everyone's POV but offers the GM a ton of choices about when and how to use their pool dice. That feels like an overall wash to me, with maybe a slight edge to Cortex.

- I kind of wish SCRPG had more in the way of metacurrency for everyone to work with, especially when it comes to dice manipulation. MHR is just plain better at that aspect of things, and the two have similar enough die-rolling conventions that I feel it sometimes.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

One supers game that I haven't seen mentioned yet is Wild Talents/Godlike.

I'm a fan of both (especially Godlike, which gives me an excuse to use those decades of historical wargaming knowledge) but I have to admit the One Roll Engine is just not for everyone. I've had players bounce off that system harder than anything I've ever tried to teach anyone, and it makes me gun shy about recommending them. Fun settings though, and if everyone can grasp the die mechanic the mechanics are fine.

Wearing the Cape is another one I haven't seen mentioned. It's based on the "Wearing the Cape" novels (which I recommend) for the setting. It's FATE-derived if I remember correctly, though.

Yeah, that's a FATE game. Decent reads too, although I'm stodgy enough to prefer my superhero media in comic format rather than text (or even cinema, honestly).

Cortex -- especially if you have the Cortex Prime Game Handbook -- already has mods you can add that would do similar things: Scale dice, timed tests, scene SFX, or scene Assets/Complications/Distinctions (which are best described in the Cortex community release Xine #1 over at xine.ink).

Yeah, I think you can emulate the most aspects of SCRPG (and other supers games) with Cortex. Scale dice are a particularly useful approach to the common problem of differentiating between street/super/cosmic power tiers IMO.

IMO, MHR does NPCs and environmental threats (traps, hazards, etc.) a bit more easily, because you build them in the same way as characters. The escalation mechanics of Sentinels felt like it made creating those things a bit more complicated and opaque; it felt harder to balance. But that same added complexity does often result in more wild and interesting situations, so it's not solely a con against the game.

That's an interesting take on it. SCRPG definitely uses very different rules for NPCs and PCs, and both environments and stand-alone challenges are different from either, but I find all of them pretty easy to work with once you get used to them and what they offer a GM when scene building. I have more trouble with Cortex scenes, which I never really feel confident are going to perform at the difficulty level I'm shooting for. Might just be relative lack of practice, though. I've spent a silly amount of time and brainwork on Sentinels at this point.

Both games could probably do with a bit more newbie GM advice and expectations for scene construction in their core books IMO. Cortex (and through it, MHR) has an edge there because there's so much fan support/discussion out there, where SCRPG has some extremely uncommunicative designers and a much quieter fan community.

 

[TheHand]

Thanks for the answers! It sounds like my dream supers game would be a bit of an odd mashup between Cortex and Sentinels. Maybe someday I’ll mess around with that!