D&D (2024) GREYHAWKCONFIRMED! Reflections on Greyhawk in the DMG

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Shibboleth got renamed to Froghome, I’m ¯\(ツ)/¯ about that one but fine.

If I had to guess, the reason is probably that "shibboleth" is a Hebrew word that was used as a password in the Tanakh/Old Testament and has become a byword for ways of secretly signaling oneself as a member of an in-group and/or excluding those who are not.

There's a scene from the West Wing that shows why it might be an issue pretty clearly, but in the interest of avoiding IRL political/religious discourse, I'll link to the Wikipedia article instead.

Shibboleth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Parmandur]

This map has specific markers for some canonical locations.

White Plume Mountain.
Ghost Tower of Inverness.
Tomb of Horrors.
Temple of Elemental Evil.

eta- just saw Saltmarsh as well.


Which is interesting.

ETA2-
Maure Castle.
Castle Greyhawk.

And the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth.

Saltmarsh is probably because they are going to still be selling Ghosts of Saltmarsh (which is still a highlight of 5E products).

I have my suspicions that those serve a purpose in the Adventures section of the DMG: there are 5 sample Adventures that use 15 pages of Maps, and this got mentioned by WotC in a press conference where they unveiled this map and discussed how the Free City of Greyhawk has enough detail supplied to be a campaign hub for a DM:

"There’s plenty more ready-to-use content in the new DMG, including several example adventures. These are presented in a streamlined notation format compared to published DnD adventures, to give new DMs an example that’s easier for them to use when creating their own homebrew content."

Retro DnD world Greyhawk returns in new Dungeon Master’s Guide

The new Dungeon Master's Guide comes with a ready-to-use primer on Greyhawk, a Dungeons and Dragons setting created by Gary Gygax in 1972.

www.wargamer.com

 

[Cruentus]

Well, let's make the complete list! And thank you.

(My changes in bold, tell me if anything is wrong)

Paynims to Plains of the Ulakandar
Tiger Nomads to Chakyik
Wolf Nomads to Wegwuir
Blackmoor to Arn
Rovers of the Barrens to The Huntinglands
Frost Barbarians to North Kingdom of the Frutzi
Ice Barbarians to North Kingdom of Cruski
Snow Barbarians to North Kingdom of the Schnai
North Province to Aerdiaak
South Province removed, only Ahlissa
Glorioles to Hestmark Peaks
Scarlet Brotherhood to Shar
Shibboleth to Froghome
Sea Barons to Sea Baronies
Medegia changed from a See, and Pontylver now a capital.
Nulbish added as a city, and Rel Reven and Kalstrand removed (Great Kingdom/Ahlissa)
Resetenford added as a city (Spindrift isles)
Prelacy of Almor added as a country, with Chathold as the capital.
Ungara Batan removed as a city/capital.
Ekbir has gone from Caliphate to Sultanate- GOOD CHOICE!

Map additions:

White Plume Mountain
Ghost Tower of Inverness
Tomb of Horrors
Temple of Elemental Evil
Maure Castle
Castle Greyhawk
Caverns of Tsojcanth

The Caliphate of Ekbir was renamed to the Sultanate of Ekbir.

 

[Parmandur]

White Plume Mountain
Ghost Tower of Inverness
Tomb of Horrors
Temple of Elemental Evil
Maure Castle
Castle Greyhawk
Caverns of Tsojcanth

Another curious thing about this list:

White Plume Mountain and Tomb of Horrors were printed for 5E in Tales from the Yawning in Portal in full form...but this map doesn't have any indications for Against the Giants, The Sunless Citadel, Forges of Fury, or The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan...all of which had places on this map as originally printed.

Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth is about to be published for 5E in Quests from the Infinite Staircase...but there is no indication on the map for where the Starship in Expedition to the Barrier Peaks crashed, or for the two UK modules being printed that I can see.

There have been no WotC 5E publications whatsoever for Castle Maure, Ghost Tower of Iverness, the Temple of Elemental Evil (PotA was an homage, and the Goodman Games version is out of print) or most especially Cadtle Greyhawk.

So this particular set of 7 Dungeons is exceedingly strange.

 

[el-remmen]

What's with the name change to the Scarlet Brotherhood?

 

[Cruentus]

What's with the name change to the Scarlet Brotherhood?

The Scarlet Brotherhood was also known as the Kingdom of Shar. I'm not sure when that was used, or where in the timeline it might have changed. Some seem to be trying to use the name changes to "date" the map, and see if its being reset, or if its in the "current timeline."

 

[Staffan]

What's with the name change to the Scarlet Brotherhood?

My understanding is that the Scarlet Brotherhood is still around, but they aren't based in Scarlet Brotherhood-land anymore but in Shar.

Come to think of it, it's possible that the organization may see a name change as well to something like the Scarlet Order, but that's purely speculation on my part. I haven't seen anything one way or the other.

 

[Parmandur]

What's with the name change to the Scarlet Brotherhood?

Apparently Shar was the name the Scarlet Brotherhood gave their core territory per the 1999 supplement "The Scarlet Brotherhood" by Sean K. Reynolds. In the time period of this map...the Scarlet Brotherhood is a secret society unknown to people at large. So, their name is not on the map.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I’m not really that familiar with Greyhawk. Most of the information I do know about it is the basic stuff that’s bled into other settings (the Great Wheel, Vecna and Mordenkainen, some of the gods, etc). And I’m not really interested in it. I already have enough settings that I enjoy. But from how you describe what made you fall in love with the Greyhawk sounds like what made me fall in love with Eberron. The mysteries in the setting’s lore that the DM is can make answers for specifically reminds me of one of my favorite aspects of Eberron.

So while I have no intention in ever running a Greyhawk campaign, I am curious to see how the new DMG will use the setting as a guide for teaching new DMs how to worldbuild.

 

[Oofta]

I've had time to think about it now, so I thought I'd put together a brief (yes, really!) post about my thoughts regarding Greyhawk in the DMG for 5e: 5e Harder.

Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm a man of wealth and taste. I've been around for a long, long year. And I've stolen many of your hours to waste.

Quoting the Rolling Stones? Sounds like something a bard would do. Just sayin'.

P.S. After I've recuperated a bit more from marathon DMing sessions I'll read through the rest of this.