D&D Historian Benn Riggs On Gary Gygax & Sexism

Status
Not open for further replies.
Screenshot 2024-07-08 at 23.21.58.png


The recent book The Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons 1970-1977 talks about the early years of D&D. In the book, authors Jon Peterson and Jason Tondro talk about the way the game, and its writers, approached certain issues. Not surprisingly, this revelation received aggressive "pushback" on social media because, well, that sort of thing does--in fact, one designer who worked with Gygax at the time labelled it "slanderous".

D&D historian Ben Riggs--author of Slaying the Dragon--delved into the facts. Note that the below was posted on Twitter, in that format, not as an article.

D&D Co-Creator Gary Gygax was Sexist. Talking About it is Key to Preserving his Legacy.

The internet has been rending its clothes and gnashing its teeth over the introduction to an instant classic of TTRPG history, The Making of Original D&D 1970-1977. Published by Wizards of the Coast, it details the earliest days of D&D’s creation using amazing primary source materials.

Why then has the response been outrage from various corners of the internet? Well authors Jon Peterson and Jason Tondro mention that early D&D made light of slavery, disparaged women, and gave Hindu deities hit points. They also repeated Wizard’s disclaimer for legacy content which states:"These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed."

In response to this, an army of grognards swarmed social media to bite their shields and bellow. Early D&D author Rob Kuntz described Peterson and Tondro’s work as “slanderous.” On his Castle Oldskull blog, Kent David Kelly called it “disparagement.” These critics are accusing Peterson and Tondro of dishonesty. Lying, not to put too fine a point on it.So, are they lying? Are they making stuff up about Gary Gygax and early D&D?

Well, let's look at a specific example of what Peterson and Tondro describe as “misogyny “ from 1975's Greyhawk. Greyhawk was the first supplement ever produced for D&D. Written by Gary Gygax and Rob Kuntz, the same Rob Kuntz who claimed slander above, it was a crucial text in the history of the game. For example, it debuted the thief character class. It also gave the game new dragons, among them the King of Lawful Dragons and the Queen of Chaotic Dragons. The male dragon is good, and female dragon is evil. (See Appendix 1 below for more.)

GR9iKUjWsAAete8.jpeg

It is a repetition of the old trope that male power is inherently good, and female power is inherently evil. (Consider the connotations of the words witch and wizard, with witches being evil by definition, for another example.)

Now so-called defenders of Gygax and Kuntz will say that my reading of the above text makes me a fool who wouldn’t know dragon’s breath from a virtue signal. I am ruining D&D with my woke wokeness. Gygax and Kuntz were just building a fun game, and decades later, Peterson and Tondro come along to crap on their work by screeching about misogyny.

(I would also point out that as we are all white men of a certain age talking about misogyny, the worst we can expect is to be flamed online. Women often doing the same thing get rape or death threats.)

Critics of their work would say that Peterson and Tondro are reading politics into D&D. Except that when we return to the Greyhawk text, we see that it was actually Gygax and Kuntz who put “politics” into D&D.

The text itself comments on the fact that the lawful dragon is male, and the chaotic one is female. Gygax and Kuntz wrote: “Women’s lib may make whatever they wish from the foregoing.”


GR9iGsAW0AAmAOw.jpeg

The intent is clear. The female is a realm of chaos and evil, so of course they made their chaotic evil dragon a queen.

Yes, Gygax and Kuntz are making a game, but it is a game whose co-creator explicitly wrote into the rules that feminine power—perhaps even female equality—is by nature evil. There is little room for any other interpretation.

The so-called defenders of Gygax may now say that he was a man of his time, he didn’t know better, or some such. If only someone had told him women were people too in 1975! Well, Gygax was criticized for this fact of D&D at the time. And he left us his response.

Writing in EUROPA, a European fanzine, Gygax said:“I have been accused of being a nasty old sexist-male-Chauvinist-pig, for the wording in D&D isn’t what it should be. There should be more emphasis on the female role, more non-gendered names, and so forth."

GR9iyo3XwAAQCtk.jpeg


"I thought perhaps these folks were right and considered adding women in the ‘Raping and Pillaging[’] section, in the ‘Whores and Tavern Wenches’ chapter, the special magical part dealing with ‘Hags and Crones’...and thought perhaps of adding an appendix on ‘Medieval Harems, Slave Girls, and Going Viking’. Damn right I am sexist. It doesn’t matter to me if women get paid as much as men, get jobs traditionally male, and shower in the men’s locker room."

"They can jolly well stay away from wargaming in droves for all I care. I’ve seen many a good wargame and wargamer spoiled thanks to the fair sex. I’ll detail that if anyone wishes.”


So just to summarize here, Gygax wrote misogyny into the D&D rules. When this was raised with him as an issue at the time, his response was to offer to put rules on rape and sex slavery into D&D.

The outrage online directed at Peterson and Tondro is not only entirely misplaced and disproportional, and perhaps even dishonest in certain cases...

Part 2: D&D Co-Creator Gary Gygax was Sexist. Talking About it is Key to Preserving his Legacy....it is also directly harming the legacies of Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz and the entire first generation of genius game designers our online army of outraged grognards purport to defend.

How? Let me show you.The D&D player base is getting more diverse in every measurable way, including age, gender, sexual orientation, and race. To cite a few statistics, 81% of D&D players are Millenials or Gen Z, and 39% are women. This diversity is incredible, and not because the diversity is some blessed goal unto itself. Rather, the increasing diversity of D&D proves the vigor of the TTRPG medium. Like Japanese rap music or Soviet science fiction, the transportation of a medium across cultures, nations, and genders proves that it is an important method for exploring the human condition. And while TTRPGs are a game, they are also clearly an important method for exploring the human condition. The fact the TTRPG fanbase is no longer solely middle-aged Midwestern cis men of middle European descent...

...the fact that non-binary blerds and Indigenous trans women and fat Polish-American geeks like me and people from every bed of the human vegetable garden ...

find meaning in a game created by two white guys from the Midwest is proof that Gygax and Arneson were geniuses who heaved human civilization forward, even if only by a few feet.

So, as a community, how do we deal with the ugly prejudices of our hobby’s co-creator who also baked them into the game we love? We could pretend there is no problem at all, and say that anyone who mentions the problem is a liar. There is no misogyny to see. There is no **** and there is no stink, and anyone who says there is naughty word on your sneakers is lying and is just trying to embarrass you.

I wonder how that will go? Will all these new D&D fans decide that maybe D&D isn’t for them? They know the stink of misogyny, just like they know **** when they smell it. To say it isn’t there is an insult to their intelligence. If they left the hobby over this, it would leave our community smaller, poorer, and suggest that the great work of Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz, and the other early luminaries on D&D was perhaps not so great after all…

We could take the route of Disney and Song of the South. Wizards could remove all the PDFs of early D&D from DriveThruRPG. They could refuse to ever reprint this material again. Hide it. Bury it. Erase it all with copyright law and lawyers. Yet no matter how deeply you bury the past, it always tends to come back up to the surface again. Heck, there are whole podcast series about that. And what will all these new D&D fans think when they realize that a corporation tried to hide its own mistakes from them?

Again, maybe they decide D&D isn’t the game for them. Or maybe when someone tells you there is **** on your shoe, you say thanks, clean it off, and move on.

We honor the old books, but when they tell a reader they are a lesser human being, we should acknowledge that is not the D&D of 2024. Something like...

“Hey reader, we see you in all your wondrous multiplicity of possibility, and if we were publishing this today, it wouldn’t contain messages and themes telling some of you that you are less than others. So we just want to warn you. That stuff’s in there.”

Y’know, something like that legacy content warning they put on all those old PDFs on DriveThruRPG. And when we see something bigoted in old D&D, we talk about it. It lets the new, broad, and deep tribe of D&D know that we do not want bigotry in D&D today. Talking about it welcomes the entire human family into the hobby.To do anything less is to damn D&D to darkness. It hobbles its growth, gates its community, denies the world the joy of the game, and denies its creators their due. D&D’s creators were visionary game designers. They were also people, and people are kinda ****** up. So a necessary step in making D&D the sort of cultural pillar that it deserves to be is to name its bigotries and prejudices when you see them. Failure to do so hurts the game by shrinking our community and therefore shrinking the legacy of its creators.

Appendix 1: Yeah, I know Chaos isn’t the same as Evil in OD&D.

But I would also point out as nerdily as possible that on pg. 9 of Book 1 of OD&D, under “Character Alignment, Including Various Monsters and Creatures,” Evil High Priests are included under the “Chaos” heading, along with the undead. So I would put to you that Gygax did see a relationship between Evil and Chaos at the time.

GR9lAHtaQAANLyb.jpeg




Look, folks, we know how a conversation like this goes on the internet. Because, internet. Read the rules you agreed to before replying. The banhammer will be used on those who don't do what they agreed to.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


log in or register to remove this ad

Sure, I get that. And good luck with it, because those ideas are far from dead. The number of YouTubers who will come out and say things like "Women are ruining [franchise X] because they want to talk about their feelings all the time" makes me feel like we're not so far from the 1970s sometimes.

And since that is the case, why would we EVER want to say "Well, these views were acceptable back in the day..." because it doesn't matter what we follow it with, they will then demand to know why it isn't okay now and why they are being canceled and suppressed for only having an opinion that you said was acceptable.
 

A lot of people sure do seem to think that having their incidental conversations recorded and then printed half a century later without much context to go with it will portray them as paragons of virtue, as fast as they are to point fingers. The hobby was minuscule back in the 70s; a zine might be read by double-digits of people, tops, a "convention" could be thirty nerds in a room. Gygax's random off the cuff comments were being made in an extremely casual setting of fellow wargamers, they were not something being done with the anticipation of the eyes of the future being on them to judge the man's character. Anyone who is bending down to pick up a stone should pause and recall everything they've said while hanging with friends at parties in their life and consider how those statements would look in print when read by strangers in 2074.

I do think of that. I do consider it. And if in 2074 I'm a world-wide phenomena who has reshaped significant portions of culture and affected millions in a positive way, then let my name be dragged through burning mud for all the terrible things I did.

"You aren't perfect either" isn't a reason to ignore when people do bad things or say bad things.
 

wait, can I still love the art of Frazetta, Elmore, et. al without being sexist person? Can I admire beautiful, pumped, voluptuous bodies in fantasy action without being a bigot?

Can I love the art if I do not ascribe to the ism or bigotry or the politics of the artist?

Should I burn my art books?

IF they aren't named "Gary Gygax" then I have no idea why a discussion about Gary Gygax would have you asking those questions. Did Elmore proudly say "I am a sexist and I don't care if women have equal rights to men"?
 

not me, I am not interested in the reprint of OD&D, I’ll go with the 2nd edition of Playing at the World instead, should cover essentially the same thing
Yeah, I think it is important for people to realize that this isn't a history book like Playing at the World. If you liked that book, it doesn't mean you'll like this book.

A better way to look at it is, if you happily paid $50 for one of Goodman Game's Original Adventure's Reincarnated, which was mostly multiple reprintings of the same adventure, often with hard-to-discern differences from one reprinting to the next, then you are a likely customer for this book--except The Making of Original Dungeons and Dragons has no full adventure in it and certainly not one converted to 5e. There is no playable content. It is mostly just reproductions of documents from the earliest days of the game. There isn't even really any art in the book (get Art and Arcana for that). If that sounds boring and useless to you, it isn't worth the $100. But if you love poring over the old documents to see how ideas for what became D&D came together, it's a treasure. I'm the later. Same way I'm really looking forward to visiting Marquette University's public showing of its Tolkien manuscripts in September. For some people, spending a day looking at notes and drafts and edits and letters would be god-awful boring. They just want to read the finished book and watch the movies. Others like to dive into the history and see how the work came together. No right or wrong here, but it is important to understand what you are buying before you spend $100.
 

But it [sexism] was more tolerated then then than it is now. I don't see how you can dispute that.

This is an oversimplification.

When we say someone was a "product of their time," it's comparable to saying "he didn't know any better" or appealing to their ignorance. And if someone's ignorant, well, that's not their fault, right? Yeah, maybe it sucked, but can't blame the medieval princeling for believing in the divine right of kings, right? Product of his time! Gary was sexist like the WORLD was sexist, right? People just...didn't know! They didn't understand, like we do today in our enlightened age!

This erases his agency.

We know Gygax knew about feminist movements. He wasn't ignorant, or stupid, or unaware. We have evidence showing that he was TOLD about the harm he was doing, and his reaction was dismissive rancor and insult.

He had a choice, and he made the choice to be awful.

He was not acting based on nebulous cultural forces, he was make a decision to write words that hurt people after being told of the hurt.

All the references to the accomplishments of second wave feminism being made in this thread further drive the point home. Not only was he explicitly told about the harm, change was present all around him. In the news. In the world. "The time" was not uniformly tolerant of this kind of thing. It wasn't tolerant of it in Gary's case, either!

What's more, we can also point to some modern nonsense as evidence that it is PLENTY tolerated today. Incels and the manosphere and Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate and tradwives and TikTok dating advice and proudly misogynist world leaders and right-wing judges and zero hope that any of this will change dramatically in the next few years (and some evidence that it could get significantly worse!). The myth of progress would have you believe today is better, but that's not true for everyone everywhere. Progress is not evenly distributed, nor is it inevitable.

Gygax faced the same thing faced by thousands of men today when they hear about "Would you rather be lost in the woods with a bear or man?" - a choice to hear what he was being told and change, or a choice to reject the messenger because the message was uncomfortable.

He made his choice.

That thousands of other men in his era made the same choice doesn't excuse his actions, or alleviate the harm he did, any more than the thousands of misogynists in this era excuse the actions of lobsters like Jordan Peterson.

Gary had agency, just as we do today. Gary could have made different choices, just as we could today. Gary did not just act according to a cultural script. He chose to refuse calls to change.

His times are maybe a reason - maybe he grew up learning this nonsense, maybe he learned it from his peers in that era. Definitely his influences were not great winners (sword & sorcery pulp was awful about this, and Tolkein was bad, too).

His times are not an excuse. His choices are his responsibility. He was not ignorant.
 
Last edited:


Certainly not popular opinion, but common opinion.
Popular and Common are the same thing. The opinion held by the majority of the populace. This is a nonsensical distinction.

Or are you trying to say that even though it was socially unacceptable there were still a fairly large number of people who were still openly, proudly, bigoted? 'Cause that's true. But that's no longer "A Product of their Time" that's them -being- openly, proudly, bigoted. Against the mass consensus.
I am somewhat skeptical about the reporting or for that matter, just how serious he was when he made different statements. Some people will say outrageous things to just get a rise out of others, or they think they are being funny..
He wrote it himself. Every time. In the Europa Article. On the forums here. Everywhere. There's also contemporaries who you can ask and will agree that he said and believed those things.

How many times does someone have to say "I'm a bigot" before you go "Wellll... maybe he was being sincere in telling us he was a bigot" as opposed to hemming and hawwing over whether or not he was trying to be a provocateur rather than expressing his personal beliefs?
Again...common.

It is really hard to compare.
It really isn't. JK Rowling and Justin Lanasa's viewpoints are beyond the pale of what is considered socially acceptable.

Like. Transphobia is still a thing in the mainstream. But they're outside the Overton Window on the matter. Like so many people throughout history. And trying to stretch the window by saying "Oh, but it was common even if it wasn't popular" is just bad faith.
 

I was reading a collection of Conan stories and got to one where a woman was abducted by black natives but escaped. She finds Conan who gets super pissed off that these black men touched her white skin.

I was SHOCKED. Like out of all the Conan I had read this one went hard on the racism.
Kinda how I felt when I finally got around to reading the entire collection of HP Lovecraft a few years ago. Lovecraft is a complicated person. Sheltered, suffering from serious mental and physical ailments. Was both anti-semitic yet one of his closest friends, who ended up being instrumental in preserving Lovecraft's work, was Jewish. It is strange to feel sympathetic about someone who has written some hateful things about whole groups of people. Have similar feelings about Gary Gygax. Some of the things he's written are very offensive, and he certainly had character flaws beyond misogyny. Yet he created something I love, helped launch a hobby I love, and was an avuncular voice of reason during the Satanic Panic.
 
Last edited:

I mean if he'd been born in, say, 1988 rather than 1938. His views (both his opinions and his perspective on what one can and can't say) would have been formed in a very different environment.

And I've gotta go game, so I'm bowing out, at least for now.

I don’t see the point in continuing discussion on this. The “product of his time” argument appears to be a carte blanche for some no matter how many people of that same generation who did not hold the same views, or despite the number of older men who came to realize their younger selves were sexist. People can certainly learn to change but Gygax apparently was not one of them.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Remove ads

Top