D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"

[Maxperson]

Glorified sounds like it is just better in name.
Maybe I interpreted it wrong.

I think it is yes a very powerful ability to invoke the power of your god (a. k. a. cast a spell) when you need it.

Did you have that spell prepared or enough diamond dust? Nope. Your god does not say: "bad luck". They say: "ok. This one time (today) I can help you."

And later, the god grants a wish. That seems like what a good does when they intervene.

Maybe a little annotation for the low level divine intervention could read: at your DM's discretion, you can ask for a different effect than chosing a spell.

You're right. Glorified is probably the wrong word, but divine intervention is likewise the wrong term. It's an improved/amplified/boosted spell slot.

That's semantics, though. You know what we were saying when we used "glorified." The ability(good as it is) as it stands is not worthy of being called divine intervention.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The old ability was just bad. 10 to 19% chance is not intervention, it is usually: "nope".

If it was 3% chance per level or so, ok. But 1% always felt like an insult.

Yup, it was unreliable. Which is why you don't rely on it. It's not supposed to be relied on. It's a literal Hail Mary.

 

[Yaarel]

You're right. Glorified is probably the wrong word, but divine intervention is likewise the wrong term. It's an improved/amplified/boosted spell slot.

That's semantics, though. You know what we were saying when we used "glorified." The ability(good as it is) as it stands is not worthy of being called divine intervention.

There is a blurry line between a god performing miracles and a god teaching a human how to perform miracles. Even the biblical texts straddle this blurry line.

The improved spellslot is for the Humanoid who understands how to perform Divine miracles.

 

[Horwath]

Under that definition, every clerical spell is divine intervention, which in a way they are. The ability is little more than a spell that is weaker than the cleric can cast himself.

Actual divine intervention should be stronger and less clearly defined. A cleric of the god of forests using divine intervention when facing a group that has deforested a massive area should be able to have the entire forest grow back in a matter of minutes.

Limiting it to spells and 5th level spells at that, does the ability a huge disservice.

that is also true.

but maybe people do not like that their class resource pool is being spent on "maybe" or "how the DM feels today" feature.

while I agree that this ability might be little blander than 2014 version, at least it works and you can count on it.

 

[Maxperson]

There is a blurry line between a god performing miracles and a god teaching a human how to perform miracles. Even the biblical texts straddle this blurry line.

The improved spellslot is for the Humanoid who understands how to perform Divine miracles.

Then it's not divine intervention. If the person is doing the miracle, the god isn't. Divine intervention is when the god itself intervenes, and that ain't going to be limited to spells or 5th level.

 

[James Gasik]

I find it interesting that so many people in this thread want the 10th level ability to be more powerful, when Cleric is already a strong class. It's especially amusing in light of the gloom and doom on other threads about how players will be far too strong in 2024 for poor DM's to ever challenge, lol.

I mean, if Wizards had an ability at 10th level to cast any spell off their list whether they know it or not, I could make a killing selling torches and pitchforks!

The narrative possibilities of 2014 Divine Intervention are really cool, but the chances of it happening, plus the wide variance in what happens (a conservative DM could decide it's far less potent than a 5th level spell- and then attach strings to it) if it happens at all make me feel that raising the floor is perfectly acceptable by lowering the ceiling.

If it was a stronger ability, I wouldn't mind it- but let's be reasonable here. If you're the DM and you want it to be stronger, then you can make it so. If you're a player and would rather have a 10% chance once per week to get a maybe wish instead of a free spell, I'm sure if you talk to your DM they'd be fine with that trade.

It seems the hangup here is more the name of the ability than it's effect- if it were called something less evocative we'd see it for what it is- a very potent ability, a strong contender for the best level 10 main class ability in the game.

 

[Yaarel]

Then it's not divine intervention. If the person is doing the miracle, the god isn't. Divine intervention is when the god itself intervenes, and that ain't going to be limited to spells or 5th level.

The power comes from the Divine power source, the plane where divinity resides. It is Divine intervention, by human agency.

Any gods and any humans are using the same Divine power source.

 

[Maxperson]

that is also true.

but maybe people do not like that their class resource pool is being spent on "maybe" or "how the DM feels today" feature.

while I agree that this ability might be little blander than 2014 version, at least it works and you can count on it.

Then rename it. It's not divine intervention. I agree by the way, that the chances of success were too low in the 2014 version. 5% per level seems better. Gods don't always reply, but if the god is giving you the ability, it's not going to be as iffy as it used to be.

 

[Maxperson]

The power comes from the Divine, the plane where divinity resides. It is Divine intervention, by human means.

Just like every other clerical spell. If you're lowering divine intervention to mean clerical spell, you've diluted the term into near uselessness. Instead of miraculous divine intervention, you've just got another spell slot with a few bells and whistles.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I find it interesting that so many people in this thread want the 10th level ability to be more powerful, when Cleric is already a strong class. It's especially amusing in light of the gloom and doom on other threads about how players will be far too strong in 2024 for poor DM's to ever challenge, lol.

I mean, if Wizards had an ability at 10th level to cast any spell off their list whether they know it or not, I could make a killing selling torches and pitchforks!

The narrative possibilities of 2014 Divine Intervention are really cool, but the chances of it happening, plus the wide variance in what happens (a conservative DM could decide it's far less potent than a 5th level spell- and then attach strings to it) if it happens at all make me feel that raising the floor is perfectly acceptable by lowering the ceiling.

If it was a stronger ability, I wouldn't mind it- but let's be reasonable here. If you're the DM and you want it to be stronger, then you can make it so. If you're a player and would rather have a 10% chance once per week to get a maybe wish instead of a free spell, I'm sure if you talk to your DM they'd be fine with that trade.

It seems the hangup here is more the name of the ability than it's effect- if it were called something less evocative we'd see it for what it is- a very potent ability, a strong contender for the best level 10 main class ability in the game.

I care more about what the mechanics represent than how powerful they are (or aren't).