D&D Historian Benn Riggs On Gary Gygax & Sexism

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The recent book The Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons 1970-1977 talks about the early years of D&D. In the book, authors Jon Peterson and Jason Tondro talk about the way the game, and its writers, approached certain issues. Not surprisingly, this revelation received aggressive "pushback" on social media because, well, that sort of thing does--in fact, one designer who worked with Gygax at the time labelled it "slanderous".

D&D historian Ben Riggs--author of Slaying the Dragon--delved into the facts. Note that the below was posted on Twitter, in that format, not as an article.

D&D Co-Creator Gary Gygax was Sexist. Talking About it is Key to Preserving his Legacy.

The internet has been rending its clothes and gnashing its teeth over the introduction to an instant classic of TTRPG history, The Making of Original D&D 1970-1977. Published by Wizards of the Coast, it details the earliest days of D&D’s creation using amazing primary source materials.

Why then has the response been outrage from various corners of the internet? Well authors Jon Peterson and Jason Tondro mention that early D&D made light of slavery, disparaged women, and gave Hindu deities hit points. They also repeated Wizard’s disclaimer for legacy content which states:"These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed."

In response to this, an army of grognards swarmed social media to bite their shields and bellow. Early D&D author Rob Kuntz described Peterson and Tondro’s work as “slanderous.” On his Castle Oldskull blog, Kent David Kelly called it “disparagement.” These critics are accusing Peterson and Tondro of dishonesty. Lying, not to put too fine a point on it.So, are they lying? Are they making stuff up about Gary Gygax and early D&D?

Well, let's look at a specific example of what Peterson and Tondro describe as “misogyny “ from 1975's Greyhawk. Greyhawk was the first supplement ever produced for D&D. Written by Gary Gygax and Rob Kuntz, the same Rob Kuntz who claimed slander above, it was a crucial text in the history of the game. For example, it debuted the thief character class. It also gave the game new dragons, among them the King of Lawful Dragons and the Queen of Chaotic Dragons. The male dragon is good, and female dragon is evil. (See Appendix 1 below for more.)

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It is a repetition of the old trope that male power is inherently good, and female power is inherently evil. (Consider the connotations of the words witch and wizard, with witches being evil by definition, for another example.)

Now so-called defenders of Gygax and Kuntz will say that my reading of the above text makes me a fool who wouldn’t know dragon’s breath from a virtue signal. I am ruining D&D with my woke wokeness. Gygax and Kuntz were just building a fun game, and decades later, Peterson and Tondro come along to crap on their work by screeching about misogyny.

(I would also point out that as we are all white men of a certain age talking about misogyny, the worst we can expect is to be flamed online. Women often doing the same thing get rape or death threats.)

Critics of their work would say that Peterson and Tondro are reading politics into D&D. Except that when we return to the Greyhawk text, we see that it was actually Gygax and Kuntz who put “politics” into D&D.

The text itself comments on the fact that the lawful dragon is male, and the chaotic one is female. Gygax and Kuntz wrote: “Women’s lib may make whatever they wish from the foregoing.”


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The intent is clear. The female is a realm of chaos and evil, so of course they made their chaotic evil dragon a queen.

Yes, Gygax and Kuntz are making a game, but it is a game whose co-creator explicitly wrote into the rules that feminine power—perhaps even female equality—is by nature evil. There is little room for any other interpretation.

The so-called defenders of Gygax may now say that he was a man of his time, he didn’t know better, or some such. If only someone had told him women were people too in 1975! Well, Gygax was criticized for this fact of D&D at the time. And he left us his response.

Writing in EUROPA, a European fanzine, Gygax said:“I have been accused of being a nasty old sexist-male-Chauvinist-pig, for the wording in D&D isn’t what it should be. There should be more emphasis on the female role, more non-gendered names, and so forth."

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"I thought perhaps these folks were right and considered adding women in the ‘Raping and Pillaging[’] section, in the ‘Whores and Tavern Wenches’ chapter, the special magical part dealing with ‘Hags and Crones’...and thought perhaps of adding an appendix on ‘Medieval Harems, Slave Girls, and Going Viking’. Damn right I am sexist. It doesn’t matter to me if women get paid as much as men, get jobs traditionally male, and shower in the men’s locker room."

"They can jolly well stay away from wargaming in droves for all I care. I’ve seen many a good wargame and wargamer spoiled thanks to the fair sex. I’ll detail that if anyone wishes.”


So just to summarize here, Gygax wrote misogyny into the D&D rules. When this was raised with him as an issue at the time, his response was to offer to put rules on rape and sex slavery into D&D.

The outrage online directed at Peterson and Tondro is not only entirely misplaced and disproportional, and perhaps even dishonest in certain cases...

Part 2: D&D Co-Creator Gary Gygax was Sexist. Talking About it is Key to Preserving his Legacy....it is also directly harming the legacies of Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz and the entire first generation of genius game designers our online army of outraged grognards purport to defend.

How? Let me show you.The D&D player base is getting more diverse in every measurable way, including age, gender, sexual orientation, and race. To cite a few statistics, 81% of D&D players are Millenials or Gen Z, and 39% are women. This diversity is incredible, and not because the diversity is some blessed goal unto itself. Rather, the increasing diversity of D&D proves the vigor of the TTRPG medium. Like Japanese rap music or Soviet science fiction, the transportation of a medium across cultures, nations, and genders proves that it is an important method for exploring the human condition. And while TTRPGs are a game, they are also clearly an important method for exploring the human condition. The fact the TTRPG fanbase is no longer solely middle-aged Midwestern cis men of middle European descent...

...the fact that non-binary blerds and Indigenous trans women and fat Polish-American geeks like me and people from every bed of the human vegetable garden ...

find meaning in a game created by two white guys from the Midwest is proof that Gygax and Arneson were geniuses who heaved human civilization forward, even if only by a few feet.

So, as a community, how do we deal with the ugly prejudices of our hobby’s co-creator who also baked them into the game we love? We could pretend there is no problem at all, and say that anyone who mentions the problem is a liar. There is no misogyny to see. There is no **** and there is no stink, and anyone who says there is naughty word on your sneakers is lying and is just trying to embarrass you.

I wonder how that will go? Will all these new D&D fans decide that maybe D&D isn’t for them? They know the stink of misogyny, just like they know **** when they smell it. To say it isn’t there is an insult to their intelligence. If they left the hobby over this, it would leave our community smaller, poorer, and suggest that the great work of Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz, and the other early luminaries on D&D was perhaps not so great after all…

We could take the route of Disney and Song of the South. Wizards could remove all the PDFs of early D&D from DriveThruRPG. They could refuse to ever reprint this material again. Hide it. Bury it. Erase it all with copyright law and lawyers. Yet no matter how deeply you bury the past, it always tends to come back up to the surface again. Heck, there are whole podcast series about that. And what will all these new D&D fans think when they realize that a corporation tried to hide its own mistakes from them?

Again, maybe they decide D&D isn’t the game for them. Or maybe when someone tells you there is **** on your shoe, you say thanks, clean it off, and move on.

We honor the old books, but when they tell a reader they are a lesser human being, we should acknowledge that is not the D&D of 2024. Something like...

“Hey reader, we see you in all your wondrous multiplicity of possibility, and if we were publishing this today, it wouldn’t contain messages and themes telling some of you that you are less than others. So we just want to warn you. That stuff’s in there.”

Y’know, something like that legacy content warning they put on all those old PDFs on DriveThruRPG. And when we see something bigoted in old D&D, we talk about it. It lets the new, broad, and deep tribe of D&D know that we do not want bigotry in D&D today. Talking about it welcomes the entire human family into the hobby.To do anything less is to damn D&D to darkness. It hobbles its growth, gates its community, denies the world the joy of the game, and denies its creators their due. D&D’s creators were visionary game designers. They were also people, and people are kinda ****** up. So a necessary step in making D&D the sort of cultural pillar that it deserves to be is to name its bigotries and prejudices when you see them. Failure to do so hurts the game by shrinking our community and therefore shrinking the legacy of its creators.

Appendix 1: Yeah, I know Chaos isn’t the same as Evil in OD&D.

But I would also point out as nerdily as possible that on pg. 9 of Book 1 of OD&D, under “Character Alignment, Including Various Monsters and Creatures,” Evil High Priests are included under the “Chaos” heading, along with the undead. So I would put to you that Gygax did see a relationship between Evil and Chaos at the time.

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Look, folks, we know how a conversation like this goes on the internet. Because, internet. Read the rules you agreed to before replying. The banhammer will be used on those who don't do what they agreed to.
 

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yes, not as much as today however, and that unfortunately is still not enough of one
Then I think we're probably just quibbling over the definition of "outlier." My definition is having an opinion so far from the mainstream that you can't express it without suffering serious social and/or business repercussions. I do not consider arguments from those with opposing opinions to be serious repercussions, just an annoyance.

that there is a different minority (as you keep insisting) viewpoint is irrelevant to the average joe comment
But I don't think the anti-sexist viewpoint was a minority. I think the two sides were pretty evenly matched at the beginning of the decade, with the anti-sexist side gaining an advantage (maybe 60-40? 65-35?) by the end of it. It's just that when neither side is hugely dominant, I don't think there's any such thing as an "average joe" opinion.

then I am not sure what came out of left field for you
I was considering how and why Gygax was able to say those things without suffering a lot of pushback, in other words focusing on the social environment of the 1970s. You wanted to talk about what sort of moral judgment he deserved for saying the things. (Looking back, I guess it may have come from Steampunkette saying "he deserved to be criticized more in the 1970s," which I had just agreed with.)

It’s’ pretty simple. Gygax was sexist because the entire decade was sexist. The 70s was not some paragon of women’s rights by any stretch of the imagination.
It was a time of struggle. Lots of people worked hard for women's rights in the 1970s, and they made a lot of progress. Opinions on both sides of the spectrum were still pretty common.
 
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I think the wanderings in this thread have been far less than many we have all seen here about other things (low bar, I know).
yes, they frequently wander once the main topic has run its course, by then a handful of people take it into whatever direction they find interesting, and since the main conversation is over, it never reasserts itself

Here the main topic is still going strong, so derailing it (and staying on the offramp) is next to impossible
 


you know what a tangent is, a redirection of the conversation
I don't consider a tangent to be that. I consider it to be a related side path that may be wandered down in parallel with the main topic (since nothing on a message board prevents us from having multiple conversations at once) and may even cross-pollinate ideas with the main topic.

it is, so I am not sure why you want to change the topic instead
You described it as a thread whose express purpose was to make the argument against people who thought Gygax was not sexist, though. That's different from a thread devoted to discussing any thoughts that might arise from reading the article.

he kept at it until the 2000s, I'd be more interested in whether he got a lot more pushback then, and if not, why not ;)
I would be interested to know that too. I suspect he probably did get more pushback (though it seems to have rolled off him). To the degree that anyone didn't push back, it was probably because of his status as a minor celebrity.
 

he kept at it until the 2000s, I'd be more interested in whether he got a lot more pushback then, and if not, why not ;)

I provided two sources here-


You are welcome to go through the thread and let us know what you think!
 

It means that even though the book itself doesn't cover the WotC era, WotC - because they are its publisher and copyright holder - still can't be completely ignored for purposes of this discussion.

So, since this site belongs to Morrus, should we discuss his views and his flaws before we talk about WoTC and Gygax as well?

Or, in a discussion about Gygax... should we discuss Gygax?
 

Now, what positive change for the future do you feel will come of this?

Ideally? Fewer fans in the DnD community who are sexist, or at least fewer who say sexist things, and a proliferation of people in the hobby who would otherwise leave because they believe we all agree with the sexist who says sexist things, because the only people speaking up are those who defend him.
 

One other thing I wanted to zero in on in your previous message:

Not "other angles to consider his writing from." Other potential discussions about his opinions that are tangential to, and do not interfere with, passing moral judgment on his statements.

Sure, we could discuss the human condition from the founding of Athens to the latest Beyonce album. I don't see why we should do this in this thread, which is about Gygax, his statements, and the fact that people keep raising a huge fuss trying to defend them.

Yes! Some other people in the 70s, anyway.

Okay. Cool. We have established that sexist people exist. Could have told you that when I was 10.

Well, I certainly see now that nobody else seems interested in thinking about the change in norms. Had I realized that at the time, I wouldn't have entered the discussion at all.

I genuinely thought it was a thread to react to the quoted material and Ben Riggs' comments on it.

That may be, but the context of Ben Rigg's twitter thread is that a lot of people were attacking the Historians for having a few words in their book about how early DnD had some nasty stuff in it, like Sexism. Rigg's entire post, which made it here and on to ENWorld was... "yes, Gygax was sexist, here are the receipts. Also, since we WANT DnD to be a global force and an huge part of human culture now and in the future... maybe it is a good thing to be honest about its past rather than attempt to lie and hide it."

The cultural norms of the 70's, as you keep saying yourself, are completely unrelated to that.
 

I think the wanderings in this thread have been far less than many we have all seen here about other things (low bar, I know). How often have threads about Bards in 5e gone off into something about other game systems and skill rolls there, or things like that.

Compared to that, talking about background sexism in the 70s when discussing the writings of a sexist person in the 70s feels really on target. Especially if related politics of the time, for example, was brought up numerous times by others. [Since stopped by mods, because politics and history].

I wonder if it is human nature to not view ones own wanderings as wanderings, and to have more patience for wanderings of those we think are agreeing with us.

Maybe, but as was pointed out earlier in this thread, changing the topic to discuss something else is also a technique used to distract people from the meat of the issue. It is distracting them from discussing the core point, so that that point is not as strong, but instead lost in a see of side discussions.
 

Maybe, but as was pointed out earlier in this thread, changing the topic to discuss something else is also a technique used to distract people from the meat of the issue. It is distracting them from discussing the core point, so that that point is not as strong, but instead lost in a see of side discussions.

Did you do history st University?

It was basically hammered into us to remember tgat historical sources were written in a different time.

And then later people goes along and inject their own opinions into it often twisting what was written an the context it was written.

Gary wrote what he did and it was sexist then and now. Reason he didn't get much push back on it was a combination of the tine frame and where he wrote it. Not many people saw it the ones that did were either fine with it or wouldn't think to much of it. He probably didn't get much pushback because it was the 1970s. He probably had those opinions due to his formative years in the 1940s and how he was raised. Parents were JWs apparently. He us your stereotypical OK boomer (not a boomer but still).

What we don't have is any data indicating how many people thought that way specifically. We do gave data ondicat8ng the liberals around that tine were routed including the popular vote. So his views while problematic today van then we're only problematic to certain people. We can't give exact numbersas we lack that data. It was more tgan 0% less than 100.

I'll use another example n classic. Slavery was a moral quandary fro thongs lije philosophers. Some did argue it was immoral it still took centuries for it to be more or less abolished. It did not trickle down to thehoi polloi. But we have less than 1% surrviving literature and no one recorded what the Hoi poloi thought.

It's not exactly controversial to look at the events of the 1960s which would gave been very recent. National guard was shooting University students, political assassination etc. A very large chunk of the country disagreed. Who's right or wrong doesn't really matter I'm not making a moral argument.

It shouldn't be to controversial though to say his upbringing and environment in his formative years influenced his world view and that his world view was more accepted in 1970 vs 2024.

Make an RPG with elements of of that in it eg the random harlots table. Biggest RPG ever until post 2015-17 also says a lot so draw your own conclusions.
 

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