D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Bard"

[Mistwell]

Gonna be really, really hard picking between Glamour and Dance.

You can dance. If you want to.

Plus you're a bard. So you can dress real neat, from your hats to your feet.

Surprise them with a victory cry.

 

[Mistwell]

AKA Snarf's Nightmare Party

As long as they're all gnomes

 

[Chaosmancer]

The question has never been “Does Dance Bard punch and move better than Monk.”

It’s always been “is it better to be a full caster while also getting to punch stuff rather than be a Monk.”

This also ignores the fact that Bards can turn spell slots into inspiration starting at 5.

Point is, comparing them like this isn’t helpful. Especially taking into account Monk features outside their unarmed strike while ignoring the Bards Spellcasting.

Does a bard who dual-wields shortswords do anything particularly different than the Dance Bard? Or, better yet, is it better to be a Valor Bard?

The point I showed is that the Dance bard does not get increased mobility, they get unarmored defense, which is rarely much better than just wearing armor. They get a single d6 then d8 attack with dex... which they could have done with a shortsword or a rapier, or a shortbow or a light crossbow. Their bonus action attack is neat, but limited to only when they give out bardic inspiration. So, the Dance Bard isn't really much better than the Valor Bard a lot of the time.

So.... is it better to be a Valor Bard than be a Monk? Not if you want to make five attacks then deflect a flaming sword with your fist. But it is better if you want to cast Synaptic static and massive debuff an entire squad of enemies.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Um…who thinks that? Weird is definitely the weakest one, foresight is one of the best

I gave you the like, but I am upset you reminded me that Weird exists and is a 9th level spell.

 

[GarrettKP]

Does a bard who dual-wields shortswords do anything particularly different than the Dance Bard? Or, better yet, is it better to be a Valor Bard?

The point I showed is that the Dance bard does not get increased mobility, they get unarmored defense, which is rarely much better than just wearing armor. They get a single d6 then d8 attack with dex... which they could have done with a shortsword or a rapier, or a shortbow or a light crossbow. Their bonus action attack is neat, but limited to only when they give out bardic inspiration. So, the Dance Bard isn't really much better than the Valor Bard a lot of the time.

So.... is it better to be a Valor Bard than be a Monk? Not if you want to make five attacks then deflect a flaming sword with your fist. But it is better if you want to cast Synaptic static and massive debuff an entire squad of enemies.

The Dance Bard, like the Valor Bard, doesn’t really get a good feature until level 6. But being able to apply BI to the groups initiative is a big feature, getting to escape from enemies and help the front liners get in faster is a good feature, and their level 14 Evasion feature is much better than Valors 14.

There’s plenty of reason to play a Dance Bard. People just seem to think Dance Bards should also be up in Melee all the time when that really isn’t their role. They are here to help the party act faster and help maneuver themselves and others on the battlefield.

 

[Staffan]

Does a bard who dual-wields shortswords do anything particularly different than the Dance Bard? Or, better yet, is it better to be a Valor Bard?

The point I showed is that the Dance bard does not get increased mobility, they get unarmored defense, which is rarely much better than just wearing armor.

In the Dance bard's case, it likely is better than the Valor bard's medium armor proficiency, but not by a whole lot. By the time they get their subclass, they can probably afford the 50 gp medium armors (13+Dex (max 2) or 14+Dex (max 2) with disadvantage to Stealth), but not the 400 or 750 gp armors. At level 3 the bard will likely have Cha +3 and Dex +2, making it the equivalent of a chain shirt. At level 4 they get a stat buff which will likely push them to Cha +4, the equal of breastplate. They can also keep increasing this at higher levels.

But if you want to mix it up in melee, Valor's probably a better choice – particularly with the ability to replace their extra attack at level 6 with a cantrip. Finally, I can fence with someone and tell them they fight like a dairy farmer. Dance is more about getting out of melee and maybe kicking someone while they're at it.

 

[Marandahir]

Dance Bards are like Dancers in Fire Emblem. So much so that sometimes they're replaced by Bards, sometimes they're supplemented by Bards but essentially do the same thing. They should be able to fly around the battlefield giving buffs and healing and kicking occasional enemies, but mainly helping their friends act twice as fast as they would otherwise.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I must have succeeded at my Insight Check, as I knew you would be the one to respond to my post.

Great. Now roll persuasion or deception.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The Dance Bard, like the Valor Bard, doesn’t really get a good feature until level 6. But being able to apply BI to the groups initiative is a big feature, getting to escape from enemies and help the front liners get in faster is a good feature, and their level 14 Evasion feature is much better than Valors 14.

100% agree, and don't disagree with it at all.

There’s plenty of reason to play a Dance Bard. People just seem to think Dance Bards should also be up in Melee all the time when that really isn’t their role. They are here to help the party act faster and help maneuver themselves and others on the battlefield.

Yeah, there is the point I was making. The Dance Bard is still, fundamentally, a Bard. They are a support class, and all of their abilities to punch and kick and have higher AC... I feel like most of their level 3 is just flavor. They might have higher AC than the typical Lore or Glamor Bard, but the idea that they are going to be in the thick of combat doesn't pan out to me.

Are they flavorful? 100%
Are they powerful support? Undeniably
Are they going to be effective frontline fighters, kicking their way to overshadowing a martial character? Not even close.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Dance Bards are like Dancers in Fire Emblem. So much so that sometimes they're replaced by Bards, sometimes they're supplemented by Bards but essentially do the same thing. They should be able to fly around the battlefield giving buffs and healing and kicking occasional enemies, but mainly helping their friends act twice as fast as they would otherwise.

Yeah, I was actually a bit shocked to realize that, other than the reaction which costs a bardic inspiration... they don't HAVE any mobility features. It feels like they should honestly, even if it is something minor like a +10 movement speed.