D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[UngeheuerLich]

My race is half-elf. Not elf. Not human. I should not be forced to take a feat to be a half-elf. If I can't take half-elf with half-elf specific abilities AND a 1st level feat, no other race should be able to, either. You want to be a Tortle with Tortle racial abilities? Take Tortle Blooded!

Be human. Use your free human origin feat to become half-elf. Simple.

 

[Maxperson]

Be human. Use your free human origin feat to become half-elf. Simple.

Again, that's 1) a human taking a feat, and 2) a feat tax. I should be able to be a half-elf AND have a 1st level feat. Don't tax me. Give me a real half-elf.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because invariably in fiction, as well as at the table, the explanation for these characters and their heritage involve sexual assault (orcs invaded our homeland) or the characters are outsiders because, of course, mixed heritage is something to be looked down on.

This is present in plenty of fiction both old and new. Tanis Half-Elven of Dragonlance fame was originally a product of rape until that was retconned much later. Then of course, he was an outsider living amongst humans because naturally a half-elf has to be treated as such in fantasy literature. Ditto Vax and Vex of Vox Machina/Critical Role whose characters are treated as inferior because of their mixed heritage by their father and the other elves.

It’s a tiresome, self-perpetuating trope. Whether it’s players at the table or authors writing a book, if there is a mixed heritage fantasy character, chances are they will feel the need to explain that mixed parentage and many times it’s going to lean into either sexual assault or experiencing racism.

Is it a bad story? It seemed to work well for all the examples you referenced, and there's no requirement that any given table uses it anyway, if it's a problem for you.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Voted no.

I mean Horcs only exist because people wanted to play orcs, but D&D orcs were locked behind D&D's weird, terrible legacy when it comes to race that's not getting broken down. So we have orcs just flat out now; there's really no need for half-orcs. And as a plus, we no longer need to play with the unfortunate implications (And more weird bad race stuff) that got put into play to make them exist in the first place.

Frankly, I was pretty happy when the weren't in the initial 4e release because of the 'story' they got saddled with made me dread their presence and that was before we got orcs.

People say they're representation, but as someone they're meant to be representing, not all representation is good representation--and horcs were not good representation.

And half elves...

I honestly don't even know why half elves were a thing. Because Elrond got mentioned as being one off hand in a way that doesn't really get explained? Because someone know Tanis would be written in the future to coin a hot new sad boy? I have no idea. They were like... the sexy species for some reason?

Look, I took the concept of fey descent and descendants who lack the power the defined their ancestors, and ran with it in my own work and I still don't know what the source material or its progenitors was actually trying to do; the last three editions made them 'the bard race', which... okay?

In terms of representation, they're better than horcs, but man... I'd love to see a story of being mixed that's not entirely about how sad I'm supposed to be. And the narrative is so... weird. I've never been rejected by my literal family for being 'half', but by communities who see me as wholly one or the other. I know other people have other experiences, but it's just so off to me. Especially as a species-wide schtick. Who are all these millions of elves and humans who will gladly sleep with the other, but are then shocked that a child of such a union has feature of the other parent?

I don't exactly mind half elves being included and they're not really taking up a slot because unlike classes, we're allowed to get new species. But at the same time, to make something a core species, I feel they need a strong reason for being and helves just don't have it.

 

[TiQuinn]

Is it a bad story? It seemed to work well for all the examples you referenced, and there's no requirement that any given table uses it anyway, if it's a problem for you.

Thought we agreed to drop this?

 

[Remathilis]

Again, that's 1) a human taking a feat, and 2) a feat tax. I should be able to be a half-elf AND have a 1st level feat. Don't tax me. Give me a real half-elf.

Principle aside, is there really much difference between

Darkvision 60 ft
Fey ancestry
Two skill proficiencies

And
Heroic Inspiration 1/day
One skill proficiency
Feat: half-elf: gain darkvision 60 ft and fey ancestry

At most you're trading one skill for inspiration. A lot of species in the 24 PHB gave up more for less.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

So we have orcs just flat out now; there's really no need for half-orcs.

I'm honestly not a fan of the new orcs. Powerful build replaced the strength bonus, but now powerful build has gone too, meaning that orcs have no link to strength at all. Not only that, but all the art we've been shown just shows them as humans with two small tusks and greyer skin.

Full orcs have lost a big part of both their mechanical and visual identity at this point.

 

[Maxperson]

Voted no.

I mean Horcs only exist because people wanted to play orcs, but D&D orcs were locked behind D&D's weird, terrible legacy when it comes to race that's not getting broken down. So we have orcs just flat out now; there's really no need for half-orcs. And as a plus, we no longer need to play with the unfortunate implications (And more weird bad race stuff) that got put into play to make them exist in the first place.

Frankly, I was pretty happy when the weren't in the initial 4e release because of the 'story' they got saddled with made me dread their presence and that was before we got orcs.

People say they're representation, but as someone they're meant to be representing, not all representation is good representation--and horcs were not good representation.

And half elves...

I honestly don't even know why half elves were a thing. Because Elrond got mentioned as being one off hand in a way that doesn't really get explained? Because someone know Tanis would be written in the future to coin a hot new sad boy? I have no idea. They were like... the sexy species for some reason?

Look, I took the concept of fey descent and descendants who lack the power the defined their ancestors, and ran with it in my own work and I still don't know what the source material or its progenitors was actually trying to do; the last three editions made them 'the bard race', which... okay?

In terms of representation, they're better than horcs, but man... I'd love to see a story of being mixed that's not entirely about how sad I'm supposed to be. And the narrative is so... weird. I've never been rejected by my literal family for being 'half', but by communities who see me as wholly one or the other. I know other people have other experiences, but it's just so off to me. Especially as a species-wide schtick. Who are all these millions of elves and humans who will gladly sleep with the other, but are then shocked that a child of such a union has feature of the other parent?

I don't exactly mind half elves being included and they're not really taking up a slot because unlike classes, we're allowed to get new species. But at the same time, to make something a core species, I feel they need a strong reason for being and helves just don't have it.

Half-elves are a thing because there were several half-elves in Tolkien. That's also the reason for half-orcs, not to play orcs. Tolkien wrote about man-orcs in his books and thus we got half-orcs. And folks like to play them.

 

[Maxperson]

Principle aside, is there really much difference between

Darkvision 60 ft
Fey ancestry
Two skill proficiencies

And
Heroic Inspiration 1/day
One skill proficiency
Feat: half-elf: gain darkvision 60 ft and fey ancestry

At most you're trading one skill for inspiration. A lot of species in the 24 PHB gave up more for less.

Yes. One is a combination of human and elf that doesn't cost me a feat. One is a human or elf and does cost me a feat.

 

[TiQuinn]

Half-elves are a thing because there were several half-elves in Tolkien. That's also the reason for half-orcs, not to play orcs. Tolkien wrote about man-orcs in his books and thus we got half-orcs. And folks like to play them.

Except that half-elves did not stay half-elves in Tolkien’s mythology.

They had to choose between their two parentages. Be an elf and be immortal, or accept humanity and be mortal.

As for half-orcs and orcs, there’s been plenty written about racist tropes in Tolkien’s work.