D&D General Deborah Ann Woll Teaches Jon Bernthal D&D

[Snarf Zagyg]

Perhaps it’s better to say that I don’t find teaching it any more difficult than say, explaining the rules of American football, which are probably even more arcane at the fringes, and yet millions watch it every weekend without much of a thought for how many rules they don’t actually know, and how often it doesn’t matter in the big picture.

Eh...

I understand the analogy you are trying to make, but I would say that the primary similarity between D&D and the NFL is that both of them are used by Derek as an excuse to raid my liquor cabinet.

DEREK!!!!

Again, I teach teens to play D&D regularly. It's not rocket science, but it's harder than people say. If a person is enthusiastic, that goes a long way. But even then- there are those who want to understand the rules, and there are those (the greater amount, IME) that are playing their Champion through level 7 and suddenly ask, "What is action surge, anyway? I have it on the character sheet."


I would go back to my original point- onboarding new players isn't hard, because 5e is forgiving, and because the group and DM will help them. And perhaps most importantly because you don't need system or rules mastery to have fun.

Kinda like being a NY Jets fan, I guess. Except that is never fun.

 

[Gorgon Zee]

I've introduced a ton of people to roleplaying games, having started a club in my church and run in non-RPG conventions a few times. I've run a number of systems and usually get people started with just two main points:

WHAT YOU ARE
This is where you say "I'm a warrior" or "an elf who likes to drink fine wines" or whatever. Some systems, especially ones similar to Fate, model that directly and so it's pretty clear to new players. Others, like D&D, model it indirectly. Being a "ranger" is not expressed directly in the game -- there are very few rules that directly reference being a ranger. Instead it is shorthand for a package of different modifiers to WHAT YOU DO. That takes much longer for new players to understand and it's been very common that people will say things like "since I'm a ranger I can shoot a bow" or make assumptions that are not necessarily true.

WHAT YOU DO
I find the simple statement "GM sets a target number and tells you which skill/attribute/etc you can add to a dice roll to try and hit that number" works well. D&D, with binary results, is very easy to understand. Fate, with degrees of success, is a little harder, but not by much. Dice pool systems are usually not too hard so long as they are just "count the successes and hit the required number". If the required number is always one, even easier.

This video does not help at all with the WHAT YOU ARE part. The translation of a person's internal concept of a character into D&D rules is very complex and expressed in terms of how well they do things rather than what they are, so it's not easy at all. It takes a fair amount of time to do this, which is why no-one typically rolls up D&D characters for one shots. It's an acquired skill that takes hours to get a basic idea of, and much longer to learn the basic templates and patterns.

This video teaches WHAT YOU DO well. However, I'd argue that that would be true in any system I run (except maybe GODLIKE or THE ONE RING).

I've run 13th Age (a version of D&D that is "the good bits" of 3E and 4E combined) and generally allow 10 minutes to explain WHAT YOU ARE based on all the numbers on your character sheet -- of which 5 minutes is the special cases. WHAT YOU DO takes about 5 minutes, as I like to be a bit more explicit about how combat and hit points work. Who I run Fate, it's 5-7 minutes total.

 

[GMMichael]

Since I'm not in a court of law and under oath and in compliance with EnWorld ToS, my language can be as loose as I like. And yah, D&D is part of the tabletop role-playing hobby chiefly because D&D created the hobby. I wonder how you define "hobby"?

I was just trying to clarify, for several reasons:

• You're accusing "people" of "gatekeeping," which has a negative connotation (unless it's used in the Ghostbusters sense).
• 50 million is an interesting number to throw out, but with its order of magnitude, I thought you were talking about all RPG players, not just D&D players.
• The OP highlights a video with "D&D" on the title frame, and a famous DM who explicitly teaches "D&D" to Senior Bernthal.
• This post is (was) in the General RPGs section, and OP doesn't specifically mention "D&D."
• Teaching the basics of RPGs is vastly different from teaching someone to play D&D. I wouldn't call the latter "simple" or "easy," so perhaps your "hobby" was just RPGs in general.

Yes, you can be as loose with your language as you like, along with other posters in this thread. It's just hard to engage with you, or Keep It On Topic, if I don't know what your topic is.

 

[Mistwell]

I was just trying to clarify, for several reasons:

• You're accusing "people" of "gatekeeping," which has a negative connotation (unless it's used in the Ghostbusters sense).
• 50 million is an interesting number to throw out, but with its order of magnitude, I thought you were talking about all RPG players, not just D&D players.
• The OP highlights a video with "D&D" on the title frame, and a famous DM who explicitly teaches "D&D" to Senior Bernthal.
• This post is (was) in the General RPGs section, and OP doesn't specifically mention "D&D."
• Teaching the basics of RPGs is vastly different from teaching someone to play D&D. I wouldn't call the latter "simple" or "easy," so perhaps your "hobby" was just RPGs in general.

Yes, you can be as loose with your language as you like, along with other posters in this thread. It's just hard to engage with you, or Keep It On Topic, if I don't know what your topic is.

It's funny, after reading the thread, I am really struggling to figure out what your topic is in this thread. Every comment has been cynical and negative, which in itself isn't a big deal but I fail to understand where you're going with it and what you're advocating for or against.

What IS your point GM Michael, for this thread about this short video about two actors talking about D&D?

 

[TiQuinn]

Eh...

I understand the analogy you are trying to make, but I would say that the primary similarity between D&D and the NFL is that both of them are used by Derek as an excuse to raid my liquor cabinet.

DEREK!!!!

Again, I teach teens to play D&D regularly. It's not rocket science, but it's harder than people say. If a person is enthusiastic, that goes a long way. But even then- there are those who want to understand the rules, and there are those (the greater amount, IME) that are playing their Champion through level 7 and suddenly ask, "What is action surge, anyway? I have it on the character sheet."


I would go back to my original point- onboarding new players isn't hard, because 5e is forgiving, and because the group and DM will help them. And perhaps most importantly because you don't need system or rules mastery to have fun.

Kinda like being a NY Jets fan, I guess. Except that is never fun.

The enthusiasm part is really what I feel was being discussed in the end of the video. Call it enthusiasm, or lack thereof, or maybe a preconceived notion that D&D is for nerds, the barrier to learning the game often starts with “Oh god. I’m actually at a table playing D&D. What has gone wrong with my life?” Getting people to “where has this BEEN all my life?” is the real hard part.

Like Woll, you don’t start with stuff like Action Surge, and to be fair, neither does 5e D&D. First level is first level for a reason and the basics are all there. And just as I bet a fair number of NFL players don’t understand what the drop kick rule is, if it comes up in a game, you learn it when you need it, i.e. it happens in a game. But yes, the analogy breaks down from there in part because those guys get paid to learn the rules.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The enthusiasm part is really what I feel was being discussed in the end of the video. Call it enthusiasm, or lack thereof, or maybe a preconceived notion that D&D is for nerds, the barrier to learning the game often starts with “Oh god. I’m actually at a table playing D&D. What has gone wrong with my life?” Getting people to “where has this BEEN all my life?” is the real hard part.

Well, I am pleased to say that this isn't nearly the problem it used to be, to the extent that it is hardly a problem today. Nerds have conquered a good deal of popular culture, and there isn't close to the social stigma association with D&D that there used to be!

And to keep it positive, I happen to love Jon Bernthal. I can't comment on the video, but I have enjoyed him in almost everything he has been in!

 

[TiQuinn]

Well, I am pleased to say that this isn't nearly the problem it used to be, to the extent that it is hardly a problem today. Nerds have conquered a good deal of popular culture, and there isn't close to the social stigma association with D&D that there used to be!

And to keep it positive, I happen to love Jon Bernthal. I can't comment on the video, but I have enjoyed him in almost everything he has been in!

Jon Bernthal can star in all the things. He’s like my new DeNiro. I’ll watch a movie of Bernthal reading the phone book.

 

[GMMichael]

It's funny, after reading the thread, I am really struggling to figure out what your topic is in this thread. Every comment has been cynical and negative, which in itself isn't a big deal but I fail to understand where you're going with it and what you're advocating for or against.

What IS your point GM Michael, for this thread about this short video about two actors talking about D&D?

I'm sorry that my critical comments are cynical and negative to you. I'm happy to clarify specific comments for you if you need to see a point, but I'm mostly here to discuss and observe.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm sorry that my critical comments are cynical and negative to you. I'm happy to clarify specific comments for you if you need to see a point, but I'm mostly here to discuss and observe.

No need to be sorry. Like I said, the cynical and negative in itself isn't a big deal. It's there "OK, and?" part I am having trouble with. What is it you're objecting to about this video? What's bugging you about the video that has you being so snarky about it?

This post in particular had me thinking, "OK, and your point is?" It's a "BadWrongFun D&D" followed by "D&D does bad stuff" followed by "She's a shill!" followed by "At least she's not as bad as that long haired shill!" Or at least that's how it reads to me though I am happy to hear your clarification.

What's that all about man? What are you attempting to accomplish with this post, and why?

Anyway, in 2 minutes she teaches Jon that he needs to "make a check" by "rolling some dice." That's not D&D. However, she does ask him to roll for several things which don't necessarily need rolling. That does seem to be D&D these days.

And when she throws in "it's the greatest game ever created," well, I start to wonder if she's sponsored, or just looking for more gigs straight from WotC. Luckily for Jon, she's a much better D&D influence than some other popular, long-haired Youtubers . . .

 

[Charlaquin]

Pretty great introduction to the game! My only critique is that when he asked, “why wouldn’t you just make yourself the best at everything?” she only answered that it’s more interesting if you have flaws. And like, sure that’s true, but it creates the impression that that’s the only reason to. I would have preferred if she’d mentioned there are some rules for how to build a character, so you’ll always have some things you’re better at and some things you’re worse at, and you usually have other players you can rely on and help each other to succeed in your shared goals. Because, personally, I don’t agree with the notion that there is no goal in D&D other than creating stories together. That’s the main goal, but the characters have other goals, and playing out those characters striving to achieve their goals is how you use D&D to create interesting stories.