D&D (2024) The changes to languages are a good start

[Stormonu]

Given they added a Common Sign Language, it’s a shame they didn’t also include the Drow Sign Language as a rare language.

Yeah, Icame here to mention that. Drow/Underdark sign language has been in AD&D since at least 1E, and I believe it’s shown up in a module or two in 2E as a plot point to an encounter.

As I’ve gotten older and tried to learn bits of foreign languages, I’ve become more interested in the different languages in the game and making them important, but it’s easy to forget at times (It’s the TV vs. Movie syndrome - TV generally ignores language differences, movies are more likely to delve into using actual different languages).

I hate that the language of magic has devolved to being draconic, and wish it still required the likes of read magic or its own unique language.

What really irritates me is the game doesn’t bother with accounting for literacy. As someone with honest-to-goodness illiterate cousins and several associates who have (severe) problems with the written word, it’s something that sticks out to me, and something I’ve only seen actually addressed back in 2E (my wife still gives me hell about the Literate NWP back from those days when I used to enforce it).

 

[Stormonu]

The British Empire conquered much of the world, which is why English is everywhere.

I have a hard time imagining Sigil conquering the entire Material Plane -- or even wanting to. It would certainly be a big break with what I know of as Planescape lore. And if they conquered the Material Plane, why did they leave? Why aren't the planar races still all over the Material Plane?

This feels like it was meant to be the First World and then someone pointed out that the First World can't yet work as a basis for a cartoon show or to sell t-shirts or anything, since it only exists as the lore in two supplements and nothing more, and they swapped it out for Sigil -- which works for both of those things and even has a Lego minifig coming next month -- without thinking it through.

I think it’s more of a Tower of Babel thing - Sigilese was the mother tongue, and all other languages are variations or derivatives of it. Perhaps it was the language of the Dabus and when it was gifted/stolen by other races it’s the reason they can only speak in rebus imagery now. (Perhaps it was the Kenku who stole the first language and “sold” it to other races until they were caught, and their punishment was that they were forever after banned a language of their own and can only steal words from others).

 

[Tonguez]

The British Empire conquered much of the world, which is why English is everywhere.

I have a hard time imagining Sigil conquering the entire Material Plane -- or even wanting to. It would certainly be a big break with what I know of as Planescape lore. And if they conquered the Material Plane, why did they leave? Why aren't the planar races still all over the Material Plane?

This feels like it was meant to be the First World and then someone pointed out that the First World can't yet work as a basis for a cartoon show or to sell t-shirts or anything, since it only exists as the lore in two supplements and nothing more, and they swapped it out for Sigil -- which works for both of those things and even has a Lego minifig coming next month -- without thinking it through.

The differences is that Sigil has portals to everywhere whereas the British had to put in some effort and then pay for it by ruthlessly exploiting every nation they got to.,

I can see the Sensates (Bards!) and the Fraternity of Order spreading a Koinè diálektos as an effecient means of interacting with the multiverse (one the common vulgar form, the other its literary counterpart). The Sigil Bazaar has species from everywhere which provides a means for the common koine to be creolised and then spread when traders return home.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I wonder if the DM's Guild has any language based products on it???

 

[Mistwell]

I definitely can see a whole party taking sign language would be an advantage. Our party members making sound while talking is a frequent source of monsters hearing us coming. And it's somewhat easier with sign language to send a message to someone else during a diplomatic situation that others are less likely to spot or understand.

 

[see]

What really irritates me is the game doesn’t bother with accounting for literacy. As someone with honest-to-goodness illiterate cousins and several associates who have (severe) problems with the written word, it’s something that sticks out to me, and something I’ve only seen actually addressed back in 2E (my wife still gives me hell about the Literate NWP back from those days when I used to enforce it).

Well, 3.5 did, vestigially; it declared every class but barbarians were literate, and that barbarians could gain literacy for 2 skill points or by taking a level in any other class.

(I note that technically, rules-as-written, this meant holders of NPC classes like Commoner, Expert, and Warrior were all literate.)

 

[pukunui]

Yeah, Icame here to mention that. Drow/Underdark sign language has been in AD&D since at least 1E, and I believe it’s shown up in a module or two in 2E as a plot point to an encounter.

As I’ve gotten older and tried to learn bits of foreign languages, I’ve become more interested in the different languages in the game and making them important, but it’s easy to forget at times (It’s the TV vs. Movie syndrome - TV generally ignores language differences, movies are more likely to delve into using actual different languages).

I hate that the language of magic has devolved to being draconic, and wish it still required the likes of read magic or its own unique language.

What really irritates me is the game doesn’t bother with accounting for literacy. As someone with honest-to-goodness illiterate cousins and several associates who have (severe) problems with the written word, it’s something that sticks out to me, and something I’ve only seen actually addressed back in 2E (my wife still gives me hell about the Literate NWP back from those days when I used to enforce it).

Yes, and if they're going to do a "Common Sign Language" why not do a Dwarvish Sign Language and an Elvish Sign Language and so on? Just like how there's American Sign Language, French Sign Language, NZ Sign Language, and so on in the real world. It feels kind of tokenistic to have just one sign language.

As for Draconic being the language of magic - I don't mind it, but I can see your point of view too. There are many different kinds of magic, not all of which would have come from dragons, so yeah, maybe magic needs its own language too.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The differences is that Sigil has portals to everywhere whereas the British had to put in some effort and then pay for it by ruthlessly exploiting every nation they got to.,

I can see the Sensates (Bards!) and the Fraternity of Order spreading a Koinè diálektos as an effecient means of interacting with the multiverse (one the common vulgar form, the other its literary counterpart). The Sigil Bazaar has species from everywhere which provides a means for the common koine to be creolised and then spread when traders return home.

Yes, there are ways to make it work, especially if you're running a Planescape game where Sigil is the axis your campaign revolves around.

But why is the Forgotten Realms now a cultural colony of Sigil? Or Mystara? Or Jakandor? Or Athas?

I get wanting to make Sigil more important so that WotC can one day have an Amazon Prime cartoon set there, but it feels very weird to have Sigil be more important than any Material Plane world. Subordinating all campaign worlds to Planescape feels needlessly intrusive.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Linking to a Drow Hand Signs T-shirt cause it feels relevant...

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[Minigiant]

I find it weird that there are no Shadowdark/Undead language.

Or a Ranger language as they would roam and meet each other often.