WotC How much does Hasbro / WotC impact your feelings towards D&D?

[dave2008]

I've played a lot of D&D5, but over the years the changes have gotten steadily worse,...

I disagree that things have gotten worse, so if that is the foundation of your argument it really just falls apart. I think most things about the direction of 5r have improved over the last 5+ years.

 

[JEB]

That you bring up the Pinkerton thing as an example of WotC being bad is a prime example.

Are you arguing that the Pinkerton thing is an example of Wizards being good? Or are you arguing that the Pinkerton thing is fake news?

Or calling Sigil an MMO. Another great example.

@Not a Decepticon 's comment was that Sigil is part of a "push to turn D&D into a crappy MMO" - clearly their opinion and a prediction of the game going further in a direction they do not like. They did not literally say that Sigil was an MMO.

 

[DinoInDisguise]

Are you arguing that the Pinkerton thing is an example of Wizards being good? Or are you arguing that the Pinkerton thing is fake news?

The argument was that it was overblown.

Based on the Polygon article at the time, link below, there can be an argument for this. The person was asked for the product back and refused, as an example. And that the article even points out that such tactics aren't uncommon in cases like that. Citing a 2021 Pokemon trading card game incident. Or that the youtuber changed their story about the incident.

So the argument might be that people want to hate WotC so bad, they find reasons to by exaggerating the "bad" aspects. And you can argue, although I'm not getting into it, downplaying the good.

We can see this in recent events, with a layoff followed, months later, by a hiring. This is far from abnormal practice. But the reaction was pure vitriol. It doesn't actually matter what the reasons for either action were, or if they were warranted. WotC did it, so it has to be bad.

And in that very thread people who point this out, that this behavior is normal and could very easily be warranted, were just dismissed as "shills." You may see that same reaction to this post.

The community has two wings to it. Both treat WotC unfairly. One to the positive, one to the negative. Hussar is, from my understanding, just calling out the latter for what it is. Just like so many call out the former in similar manner.

So making it into something so binary, as you do with your quoted comment, is a disservice to the argument at hand. But that's just my understanding.

Polygon article: Magic publishers sent Pinkerton agents to a YouTuber’s house to retrieve leaked cards

 

[Umbran]

A perfect example of someone parroting click bait talking points without actually taking the time to learn facts.

Mod Note:

Making it personal. Insulting. As if you didn't know that was a bad call. You are done in this discussion.

 

[Umbran]

Take that as the only warning you may get, folks.

Be civil with each other. That is a requirement of posting here.

 

[Scott Christian]

It would be interesting to see how many of those of us who are frustrated with 5e and would prefer a greater revision of the game have played/focused more on the higher tier levels which require more DM tinkering of the game for it to work well.

As a vote, I have never really been frustrated with 5e... or 4e... or 2e. But, I suppose, that is because I have been lucky and fortunate to have played all these games with great people.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I disagree that things have gotten worse, so if that is the foundation of your argument it really just falls apart. I think most things about the direction of 5r have improved over the last 5+ years.

The argument doesn’t fall apart; it's just subjective, and you disagree.

 

[dave2008]

The argument doesn’t fall apart; it's just subjective, and you disagree.

Yes, that is the very first thing I said.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

I wasn’t and briefly skimmed over what I could find on a Google search so I think I get the gist. I would agree there is cause for concern when the terms of putting a 3pp on DDB requires Kobold Press to remove the product from their own store and discontinue selling PDFs. Until then there is just too many viable ways to play even if DDB and Sigil end up dominant.

The issue is, that if D&D Beyond becomes THE main way through which the producers and customers interact and exchange money, it if becomes THE main source of profit for the 3rd party publishers...What's stopping WotC from implementing such rule then, when Kobold Press & others no longer can financially afford to deny them and leave D&D Beyond?

It also depends on whether there is a benefit to the creatives marketing through Sigil that they wouldn’t otherwise get. CPC is about using the control to leverage unfair advantage. If the advantage isn’t unfair - it benefits both sides - it isn’t a chokepoint.

Many that use the DMs Guild would argue that access to the IP and the additional publicity is worth the cost. I suspect folks will feel similarly about Sigil and Beyond.

The moment you control the whole means through which people can get to their customers or find and access a product they need, I would consider that an unfair advantage.

Genuinely interested in your view on this.

Firstly, where do you see the exploitative practice? How are consumers suffering, and how are suppliers suffering? Or is this something you just think is likely in the future. Because it sounds like you’re criticising them for making a platform. That in itself is providing a service for suppliers and customers.

Secondly. What makes you think D&D beyond is going to be the only way for suppliers to engage with customers? Because I’ve been playing D&D online since the pandemic and only engaged with Beyond to check the playtest materials for free, and to look up spells on my mobile because I like the format on Beyond. Everything else I do through competitors of beyond.

D&D Beyond doesn't need to be the only way to create chokepoint, the book discusses a situation of Monopsy - where the market is carved up by a very limited amount of big companies that control chokepoints, enabling them to implement abusive and expoitative practices on a leven indistinguishible from a monopoly, since there is effectively no competition or alternative for customers and producers of goods that isn't equally bad. I fear this is where D&D Beyond and SIGIL lead us.

Tell me what happened to all the social networks that failed. Google alone has failed numerous times over here. Heck, WotC already failed in this space before, i.e. Gleemax. We note the winners, never the failures. There’s a lot more failures.

A thing doesn't stop being bad just because a lot of companies did id badly.

Are you arguing that the Pinkerton thing is an example of Wizards being good? Or are you arguing that the Pinkerton thing is fake news?


@Not a Decepticon 's comment was that Sigil is part of a "push to turn D&D into a crappy MMO" - clearly their opinion and a prediction of the game going further in a direction they do not like. They did not literally say that Sigil was an MMO.

Thank you

 

[TiQuinn]

A thing doesn't stop being bad just because a lot of companies did id badly.

The thing in question isn’t inherently bad and that’s the problem with the argument you put forward.