WotC How much does Hasbro / WotC impact your feelings towards D&D?

[Not a Decepticon]

The thing in question isn’t inherently bad and that’s the problem with the argument you put forward.

Chokehold are inherently bad, tho.

 

[Scott Christian]

Chokehold are inherently bad, tho.

No, they're not. They end the fight without anyone getting punched and damaged.

 

[Umbran]

The moment you control the whole means through which people can get to their customers or find and access a product they need, I would consider that an unfair advantage.

Looking at DriveThruRPG, Kickstarter, Backerkit, individual company web pages that do sales...

Doesn't seem like much of a chokehold, to me.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Looking at DriveThruRPG, Kickstarter, Backerkit, individual company web pages that do sales...

Doesn't seem like much of a chokehold, to me.

Again, the difference between monopoly and monopsy - notice that all the names you listed are (relatively for rpg scene) big corproate things.

 

[TheSword]

The issue is, that if D&D Beyond becomes THE main way through which the producers and customers interact and exchange money, it if becomes THE main source of profit for the 3rd party publishers...What's stopping WotC from implementing such rule then, when Kobold Press & others no longer can financially afford to deny them and leave D&D Beyond?

The moment you control the whole means through which people can get to their customers or find and access a product they need, I would consider that an unfair advantage.

D&D Beyond doesn't need to be the only way to create chokepoint, the book discusses a situation of Monopsy - where the market is carved up by a very limited amount of big companies that control chokepoints, enabling them to implement abusive and expoitative practices on a leven indistinguishible from a monopoly, since there is effectively no competition or alternative for customers and producers of goods that isn't equally bad. I fear this is where D&D Beyond and SIGIL lead us.

A thing doesn't stop being bad just because a lot of companies did id badly.

Thank you

I think the single biggest difference is that in the case of the YouTube, Facebook, Amazon, Ticketmaster etc they aren’t actually providing anything themselves. They don’t contribute - the only path is through other creators.

Whereas in the case of WotC they are looking at more than just hosting a platform for other people’s work. They are actively contributing themselves. I can’t ever see a point at which WotC just becomes a VTT hosting service and not a publishing company. It’s the same reason that DM Guild isn’t a choke point because those that take part get access to IP they wouldn’t otherwise get. In the same way NetfliX aren’t a chokepoint when they give a production company 5mil to produce a series.

The second reason that I think it’s premature to worry is that there isn’t one single VTT company. Beyond, Roll20, Foundry, Fantasy Grounds, Owlbear and they are just the best known ones. All in a very small
niche industry. Most of these were produced as start ups by independents and compete effectively. Now maybe Sigil will be so amazing that it will blow us all away and it will be the only sensible way of playing the game. I’m sceptical that any VTT can turn into the YouTube of VTT, because Gamers want wildly different things from their VTT.

Thirdly. WotC seem to pull back really hard on anything that whiffs of negativity the moment they’re challenged on it. It was 2 weeks from the OGL leak to them doing a complete 180. I don’t believe that was just down to beyond subscriptions dropping. I genuinely do think they care about their reputation within the community at large. Otherwise we wouldn’t see the continued voluntary release of free rule systems.

 

[Mistwell]

Again, the difference between monopoly and monopsy - notice that all the names you listed are (relatively for rpg scene) big corproate things.

Are you arguing that you're concerned WOTC might make a product so good everyone will want to use it, and that will be a problem? Because if that's your worry, I assure you, if it's a big success and everyone wants to use it, someone else will make an even better version. And then someone else will make a third even better version. This is how competition functions. You don't stop it because you're worried the first one might be awesome. That's stagnation.

 

[AnotherGuy]

As a vote, I have never really been frustrated with 5e... or 4e... or 2e. But, I suppose, that is because I have been lucky and fortunate to have played all these games with great people.

I never once alluded to the fact that my table doesn't have great people...but interesting take on my comment.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Are you arguing that you're concerned WOTC might make a product so good everyone will want to use it, and that will be a problem? Because if that's your worry, I assure you, if it's a big success and everyone wants to use it, someone else will make an even better version. And then someone else will make a third even better version. This is how competition functions. You don't stop it because you're worried the first one might be awesome. That's stagnation.

Oh yeah, that sure worked out for streaming. Everyone tried to make a copy of shiny new thing and now they're all slowly dying off one after another, while Netflix remains as dominant force and is jacking up the prices because they know people have nowere to go. Wait.

 

[Oofta]

Are you arguing that you're concerned WOTC might make a product so good everyone will want to use it, and that will be a problem? Because if that's your worry, I assure you, if it's a big success and everyone wants to use it, someone else will make an even better version. And then someone else will make a third even better version. This is how competition functions. You don't stop it because you're worried the first one might be awesome. That's stagnation.

The only thing that would concern me is if WotC started buying out the main VTTs only to shut them down. I see no reason to believe that is going to happen any more than that people will blindly succumb to the pull of Sigil and give them total control.

If Sigil becomes popular and starts charging too much or nickel and diming people, they'll just go back to alternative VTTs.

 

[Mistwell]

Oh yeah, that sure worked out for streaming.

It certainly did. RealNetworks started with baseball games streaming. The Starlight Networks. Then a big long series of rivals until Netflix finally came around.

You think WOTC is Netflix. No. WOTC is RealNetworks or one of the other very early companies.

Everyone tried to make a copy of shiny new thing and now they're all slowly dying off one after another, while Netflix remains as dominant force and is jacking up the prices because they know people have nowere to go. Wait.

You think we're way ahead of where we're at.

But still, the idea "This will be so awesome people will want it and will be willing to pay more and more for it and others will copy it but none of them will be as awesome as this one" as being a "problem" is a pretty absurd position in my opinion. Are you really saying we shouldn't have 20-30 years of awesome because in 2045 they might charge more than you'd be happy with? You think think this is a compelling argument and we should instead be happy with worse quality products to reduce the chances the awesome thing will eventually beat the competition?

You remind me of my Russian friend who grew up in the USSR in the 70s. Always seeing the rain cloud in the silver lining.