D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[Horwath]

The concern is WIS and DEX cover a lot of skills already, common saving throws, attacks and AC, and in the ranger's case the DC of his spell list that would exceed other spell casters. That's already a lot so adding in STR too because why?

because of STRangers.
Sure you can put +4 STR or DEX, but STRangers already have in bad so why not give them something extra. and +4 STR for DEX and WIS rangers will mean next to nothing. 8->12 STR is nothing to write about.

 

[Ashrym]

because of STRangers.
Sure you can put +4 STR or DEX, but STRangers already have in bad so why not give them something extra. and +4 STR for DEX and WIS rangers will mean next to nothing. 8->12 STR is nothing to write about.

Making a good capstone better for no other reason than "because we can" or "why not" isn't a reason to make it better. That's silly. You'd be better off to argue +2 in those 3 stats for more parity to other capstones.

 

[Horwath]

Making a good capstone better for no other reason than "because we can" or "why not" isn't a reason to make it better. That's silly. You'd be better off to argue +2 in those 3 stats for more parity to other capstones.

it's not because we can, but because of math.

barbarians get +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 AC, +40HP, +2 combat DC, +2 to two saves
monks get +2 attack, +2 damage, +4 AC, +2 combat DC, +2 spell DC, +2 to two saves
rangersDEX get +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 AC, +2 combat DC, +2 spell DC, +2 to three saves
rangersWIS get +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 combat DC, +2 spell DC, +2 to three saves
rangersSTR get +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 combat DC, +2 spell DC, +2 to three saves

out of all rangers DEX ones get the best deal because it's DEX, what did you expect...
and even they are weaker to monk as monk gets +4 vs +2 to AC. so getting +2 to 3rd save is maybe saving grace of DEX ranger vs monk, but not really

also there is barbarians +40 HP vs +2 AC debate

 

[Ashrym]

it's not because we can, but because of math.

barbarians get +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 AC, +40HP, +2 combat DC, +2 to two saves
monks get +2 attack, +2 damage, +4 AC, +2 combat DC, +2 spell DC, +2 to two saves
rangersDEX get +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 AC, +2 combat DC, +2 spell DC, +2 to three saves
rangersWIS get +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 combat DC, +2 spell DC, +2 to three saves
rangersSTR get +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 combat DC, +2 spell DC, +2 to three saves

out of all rangers DEX ones get the best deal because it's DEX, what did you expect...
and even they are weaker to monk as monk gets +4 vs +2 to AC. so getting +2 to 3rd save is maybe saving grace of DEX ranger vs monk, but not really

also there is barbarians +40 HP vs +2 AC debate

Monk's "spell DC" is misleading because of the lack of a spell list. There's literally no reason to stack the ranger's spell DC like that. The only issue is favoring a DEX ranger vs a STR ranger when DEX is the primary class ability score. If you want to make this inclusive for an ability score like STR that is not tied to iconic rangers then make it a choice of 2 of the 3 and it still works (and is still a bit OP).

Giving an OP capstone and trying to rationalize it that way is still giving an OP capstone, and rangers have abilities not available to barbarians or monks in the bigger picture. It just looks like "my class deserves moar stuff" tbh.

 

[Minigiant]

then you make ability broader for whole ranger class,

I.E:

1st level: Replace bonus HM with bonus 1st level spell slots, for RANGER SPELLS ONLY, no extra Shield or Silvery barb cheese here. Please... Or you can pick 1st level RANGER spell and get that bonus castings for that spell only if this is too much of a versatility.
13th lvl: you cannot lose Concentration on a RANGER SPELL while you are consciuos.
17th lvl: while you are Concentrating on a RANGER SPELL, you have advantage on all attacks
20th lvl: while you are Concentrating on a RANGER SPELL, you deal extra d6 damage. Damage type is chosen from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison or Thunder.


You get same number of extra 1st level slots, but now not forced into HM
You get nonbreakable concentration, pretty useful for gish. Paladins got their weaker version with Cha bonus to Con saves and 7 levels earlier.
While concentrating on nature magic, your combat is improved with both 17th and 20th level abilities. And your capstone still sucks to be in theme with the ranger class for last 10years.

But I choose Hail of of Thorns.

None of your higher level features work for Hail of Thorns.

 

[Horwath]

But I choose Hail of of Thorns.

None of your higher level features work for Hail of Thorns.

they work for ANY ranger spell you are concentrating on.
and you will be concentrating on some spell all of the time.

 

[Horwath]

Monk's "spell DC" is misleading because of the lack of a spell list. There's literally no reason to stack the ranger's spell DC like that. The only issue is favoring a DEX ranger vs a STR ranger when DEX is the primary class ability score. If you want to make this inclusive for an ability score like STR that is not tied to iconic rangers then make it a choice of 2 of the 3 and it still works (and is still a bit OP).

Giving an OP capstone and trying to rationalize it that way is still giving an OP capstone, and rangers have abilities not available to barbarians or monks in the bigger picture. It just looks like "my class deserves moar stuff" tbh.

OK, should have said "stun" DC as you will probably be doing it every round at level 20. so it's like a spell.
and STR can be iconic to rangers as rangers get medium armor proficiency and that means that they can optimize STR over DEX.
Also it would be nice to have option to have heavy armor+ignoring stealth penalty in heavy armor+keeping roving bonus. Maybe as exchange for favored enemy or as a subclass.

 

[Minigiant]

they work for ANY ranger spell you are concentrating on.
and you will be concentrating on some spell all of the time.

Hail of Thorns is not a concentration spell in 2024.

Your feature doesn't work unless you are forcing me to pick a concentration spell.

 

[Horwath]

Hail of Thorns is not a concentration spell in 2024.

yes

Your feature doesn't work unless you are forcing me to pick a concentration spell.

yes that is true, but there is a difference between a single choice(if that word applies) of a spell that is not great to start with and at 13th level+ when you have choice of 20+ spells you can concentrate on. Surely you can find one spell that you like from 1st to 4th level, and later even 5th level.

please do not make false equivalence.

 

[Minigiant]

yes

yes that is true, but there is a difference between a single choice(if that word applies) of a spell that is not great to start with and at 13th level+ when you have choice of 20+ spells you can concentrate on. Surely you can find one spell that you like from 1st to 4th level, and later even 5th level.

please do not make false equivalence.

Sure

But then you'll have to redesign every concentration ranger spell around the concept of them being able to cast it without being broken by damage.

And This doesn't get into the fact that everything you ask for is just a pure damage boost for every spell authority have.

Which is the whole crux of the issue.

Hunter's market gets a boost from other class features because it's a level one spell that gets bad at tier 3.

You are choosing to let every Ranger Spell get a damage buff irregardless of if it needs it or not. Swift quiver does not need advantage to all attacks plus an extra die of damage.

That's broken.

Your option has nothing to do with choice, It's purely about damage.