D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[ECMO3]

I think that would make hunters mark rangers terrible.

When other options end up being way better in comparison an option becomes bad.

Why? If people are happy with the Hunter's Mark Ranger they have that option.

Also what is implicit in this answer is that Hunter's Mark is a weak 1st level spell. It is not weak, it is just flavorless, narrow in scope/use and something that does not facilitate building unique, cool character designs.

 

[Minigiant]

Sure there is. We can cover all three of these easily within the bounds of the current rules:

1. Replace Favored Foe with Arcane Recovery
2. Replace the 13th and 17th level abilities with metamagic
3. Replace the captstone with something worthy of a capstone.

IF you did this you would have a boost for any spell you wanted to cast, including Hunters Mark, goodberry and Speak with Animals.

That's not writing it.

Write it out and see that it doesn't work


It's easy to say something.
It's another to write out the mechanics.

 

[FrogReaver]

Why? If people are happy with the Hunter's Mark Ranger they have that option.

If non hunters mark got all the same benefits they wouldn’t be happy with it anymore.

Also what is implicit in this answer is that Hunter's Mark is a weak 1st level spell. It is not weak, it is just flavorless, narrow in scope/use and something that does not facilitate building unique, cool character designs.

It’s weak for t3 and t4 without the 2024 buffs.

 

[ECMO3]

Doesn't work.

The whole point is that you were supposed to get two extra first level slots at in Tier 1.

Ok then change it on a Ranger to give them 2 more spell slots they can use on any spell.

It is not that hard to figure out and this argument is a strawman.

But Ranger is a half caster so it doesn't have enough base slots to do both nor does it have enough cash levels to contribute both.

The TCE Ranger had enough castings to do both.

And if you just give them a ton of extra spell slots at level one it becomes an ultimate dip class for any caster who has the ability to get 13 wisdom since almost every character has 13 dexterity.

Ok. So lots of players want to play a Ranger? How is this bad?

Also I would argue the current mechanic encourages this just as much since any Martial character can dip Ranger for two free castings of HM plus 2 more 1st level spell slots. That is a huge boost.

It's essentially the Eldridge glass problem but worse. Because you have to make something exclusive to Ranger while also scaling while also have multiple options switch can scale.

They have a bunch of exclusive spells they can choose. That makes it exclusive to them.

 

[ECMO3]

You also just said you rarely ever used favored for. Feels a lot like a mountain out of a molehill for an ability you rarely used.

I did rarely use it, but I will rarely use HM too and Favored Foe was one class feature, not 4 class features.

 

[ECMO3]

I see you talk about 2 tce abilities, one of which 2024 ranger still gets. More on that below.

(As an aside I keep reading tce as ‘Tasha’s changes everything’ which is a bit amusing).

I believe you hate it. I don’t believe it’s less usable or weaker on anyone’s rangers. There’s a time and place for direct damage or for a resource cheap option in a filler fight.

HM is not a cheap option. FF can be spammed like a Paladin's Smite. The Bonus Action mechanic really kills Hunter's Mark, especially at high level.

Every time I used Favored Foe on the last Ranger I played it was for one attack (much of the time after using Nature's Viel).

2 features. 1 removed and 1 you still get albeit 4 levels later. That’s the ‘hindrance’ you are talking about from tce? I was expecting a lot more. I’m majorly underwhelmed.

Yes, that is what I am complaining about. You might not care about it, but I do.

It completely changes what you can do with the class.

 

[ECMO3]

But it is accomplished by an Eldritch Knight, paladin, multiclassed Fighter/Druid or artificer.

The Hunter's Mark Ranger can be accomplished by all of these too.

The fact is, the ranger class is a (metaphorical) appendix. It exists because of tradition, but it has NO FUNCTION in the modern D&D game. The sensible course of action would be to cut it out, and replace it with a proper gish class with a different name, but the force of tradition is too strong.

Ranger Tradition is as a fighter subclass and includes mandatory good alignment, restrictions on 3 or more Rangers operating together, heavy armor, Wizard (Magic-User) and Druid spells on a platform that gets 2 hit dice at level 1 and extra attack a level later than fighters.

Little about the 2024 Ranger strikes me as traditional in so far as the class' D&D roots.

 

[ECMO3]

I think that would make hunters mark rangers terrible.

When other options end up being way better in comparison an option becomes bad.

How does that make them worse than they are now?

Are we trying to preserve and improve the Ranger thematics and experience for people playing Rangers or are we trying to preserve and prop up the Hunter's Mark spell?

You could still play your HM Ranger.

 

[FrogReaver]

How does that make them worse than they are now?

Better and worse is comparative. If the other options start to overshadow them then they are worse.

Are we trying to preserve and improve the Ranger thematics and experience for people playing Rangers or are we trying to preserve and prop up the Hunter's Mark spell?

The same thing.

You could still play your HM Ranger.

Yea. Can always play terrible things. Surprised you are advocating I should have to.

 

[ECMO3]

That's not writing it.

Write it out and see that it doesn't work


It's easy to say something.
It's another to write out the mechanics.

1. Througout the entire spell table add one more spell prepared.


Favored Foe: You can regain some of your magical energy by studying your spellbook. When you finish a Short Rest, you can choose expended 1st level spell slots to recover. The spell slots can have a combined level equal to no more than half your proficiency bonus (round down) plus one.

Relentless Hunter​

You can alter your spells to suit your needs; you gain two Metamagic options of your choice from ]metamagic option later in this class’s description. You use the chosen options to temporarily modify 1st level Ranger spells you cast.

Precise Hunter​

You can use metamagic on any 1st or 2nd level Ranger spell you cast.