D&D General Of Consent, Session 0 and Hard Decisions.

[Stormonu]

Ahhh. OWoD. First ttrpg i ever played, and straight into Sabbath campaign. It rocked. But unlike that girl from your game, mine was with group of peps who's idea of good Friday evening was chilling in the historical old graveyard (it's nice place in the center of the city, it was used from mid 1600's till 1880s, lots of greenery, but still, old graveyard by night), drinking and blasting old school black/death metal We even had some sessions there.

While d&d is by default PG-13 that can be turned up to R, oWoD's default setting is hard R which can be tuned down to PG-13. Because of themes it covers, i personally, don't accept people i don't know at least decently well in my WoD games.

Yikes, did you get thrown into the mosh pit!

Our oWoD was a lot more subdued, but was certainly more "R" than our typical PG-13 D&D games. Most interestingly, where D&D emphasizes co-operation, Vampire and the like thrives with intra-player conflict on some level, if not outright plotting/confrontation between characters and their plans.

 

[Steampunkette]

Can you make a VTT that allows for all the individual yes/no toggles you are saying you need to account for hundreds or thousands of different player group compositions? If so, that's great! Ain't technology something! Otherwise, this sort of thing is much easier to adjudicate in person. I'm skeptical WotC is going to make a VTT that does what you want here, although some progress is better than none.

Why does the VTT need such a mechanical function when Safety Tools exist? Like. At no point was that something I stated or even implied I wanted. I was only saying that because VTTs are the way of the future, so are safety tools.

When you can say in a session 0 "Please don't include torture as a theme, it makes me incredibly uncomfortable. Same with sexual harassment."

When if you don't want to say it out loud, you can silently pass the DM a note listing the things that make you uncomfortable.

Or the DM can actively request people fill out a sheet with some common "No-No" options on it and a bunch of "Fill in your Own" options. And because online: Submit it all anonymously so no one gets laughed at or called out for being afraid of rabbits.

These are explicitly stated safety tools that you don't have to build into a VTT.

But you do note them in the DMG as DM Advice and Guidelines on how to run games with people you aren't hanging out with in person on the regular.

 

[FrogReaver]

Which is why safety tools are a godsend.

If you're not playing with any Chinese people it won't come up on a safety sheet and won't have any impact on the game.

I’m curious - How does it work when your game is doing something offensive to some Chinese people, you have one that wants to join mid campaign and his consent form says certain things already in your campaign are off limits?

If you are, and it does, -then- you make a few minor changes to accommodate and everyone has a fun time. (And for some Chinese people, it won't appear on the safety sheet, anyway, because they personally don't have a problem with it)

Why can’t the answer be, this campaign isn’t for you but we will let you know when our next campaign starts. Or sorry, our group isn’t for you but we will try to help you find one?

Or maybe it can?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why does the VTT need such a mechanical function when Safety Tools exist? Like. At no point was that something I stated or even implied I wanted. I was only saying that because VTTs are the way of the future, so are safety tools.

When you can say in a session 0 "Please don't include torture as a theme, it makes me incredibly uncomfortable. Same with sexual harassment."

When if you don't want to say it out loud, you can silently pass the DM a note listing the things that make you uncomfortable.

Or the DM can actively request people fill out a sheet with some common "No-No" options on it and a bunch of "Fill in your Own" options. And because online: Submit it all anonymously so no one gets laughed at or called out for being afraid of rabbits.

These are explicitly stated safety tools that you don't have to build into a VTT.

But you do note them in the DMG as DM Advice and Guidelines on how to run games with people you aren't hanging out with in person on the regular.

I agree with all of that; people should use whatever safety tools they and their group are comfortable with using, be they formalized like x-cards and forms, or just a session zero run-through of the upcoming campaign.

But, if you aren't talking about electronic versions of these tools, what does any of this have to do with a VTT?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I’m curious - How does it work when your game is doing something offensive to some Chinese people, you have one that wants to join mid campaign and his consent form says certain things already in your campaign are off limits?


Why can’t the answer be, this campaign isn’t for you but we will let you know when our next campaign starts. Or sorry, our group isn’t for you but we will try to help you find one?

Or maybe it can?

"This isn't a good fit for this person" should IMO always be an option.

 

[Steampunkette]

I’m curious - How does it work when your game is doing something offensive to some Chinese people, you have one that wants to join mid campaign and his consent form says certain things already in your campaign are off limits?

Either change the campaign going forward, or let them know that it's already a thing in the game and you'd rather not make them uncomfortable.

Why can’t the answer be, this campaign isn’t for you but we will let you know when our next campaign starts. Or sorry, our group isn’t for you but we will try to help you find one?

Or maybe it can?

That is the answer, yeah.

Like. Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that you have to always and forever restructure your games and style for someone else's benefit and if you don't you're a rotten and terrible narrator.

I'm saying Safety Tools are useful.

I agree with all of that; people should use whatever safety tools they and their group are comfortable with using, be they formalized like x-cards and forms, or just a session zero run-through of the upcoming campaign.

But, if you aren't talking about electronic versions of these tools, what does any of this have to do with a VTT?

Because I was comparing where D&D is going, international gameplay via VTT, to WoW and other MMORPGs tearing down barriers to play.

And expressing that if someone's DMG advice is "Know your players before you invite them to your game" as the main material in the DMG for player safety? That's not gonna go in the DMG going forward because of the VTT lean.

I feel like there was some miscommunication between what I was responding to and what you took from the post. Do you perhaps have Lanefan ignored? His statement that I was replying to might be the context you're missing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Either change the campaign going forward, or let them know that it's already a thing in the game and you'd rather not make them uncomfortable.

That is the answer, yeah.

Like. Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that you have to always and forever restructure your games and style for someone else's benefit and if you don't you're a rotten and terrible narrator.

I'm saying Safety Tools are useful.

Because I was comparing where D&D is going, international gameplay via VTT, to WoW and other MMORPGs tearing down barriers to play.

And expressing that if someone's DMG advice is "Know your players before you invite them to your game" as the main material in the DMG for player safety? That's not gonna go in the DMG going forward because of the VTT lean.

I feel like there was some miscommunication between what I was responding to and what you took from the post. Do you perhaps have Lanefan ignored? His statement that I was replying to might be the context you're missing.

No, I really inspect Lanefan; he's probably the poster here I agree with most often. I just missed the point of your discussion. Sorry about that.

 

[bedir than]

I’m curious - How does it work when your game is doing something offensive to some Chinese people, you have one that wants to join mid campaign and his consent form says certain things already in your campaign are off limits?

The same way it happens when the people you game with tell you "I used to be cool with X, but now I'd rather not be around it."
You make the necessary changes, because you are a welcoming person who enjoys gaming with friends

 

[MGibster]

Those word are fine. Problem is, it's not really viable for people who do online only games with players from different cities/countries. While online gaming wasn't that big 10 years ago when last DMG was published, it became very popular due to pandemic.

Even face-to-face, on occasion you're going to run a game for people who are strangers or you don't know very well. I've had a regular group for more than a decade now, but players have occasionally come and gone and I haven't really known everyone who started. Presumably the other player who asked them to join us knew them and thought they'd be a good fit. But there are plenty of occasions where you might be running/playing games for strangers at conventions, game day at the FLGS, or some other occasion.

I don't see why the DMG wouldn't encourage you to meet new people and game with them. In the real world, all of us run into new people in a variety of social situations. I grew up with the negative stereotype of gamers being socially awkward but I always found that odd because socialization is a big part of the game. Okay, yeah, I've seen some social misfits that gamed, but I see a lot fewer of them these days than I did in 1994.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I’m curious - How does it work when your game is doing something offensive to some Chinese people, you have one that wants to join mid campaign and his consent form says certain things already in your campaign are off limits?

I'd wonder why I was doing something that's just blanket offensive to Chinese people just off the cuff in general in the first place, TBH.

It's one thing to be doing something that can be triggering or off-putting to an individual and another to knowingly be running a campaign that's specifically targeting a segment of the population.