D&D General Why 5E Adventurs Suck!!!!!

[AnotherGuy]

It's really hard to do a good level 1-10 or 1-20 AP.

I'm not sure I share that opinion about 1-10.
It also very much depends on the theme of the adventure, some are easier than others.

1-20 on the other hand requires much more planning and forethought with a necessary hardcore element to be thrown in to up the stakes, IMO, as the higher levels are trickier to manage as DM.
I would likely also include some downtime, with an event timeline for an AP of this particular level span.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I'm a fan of collections of adventures, like the old AEG mini modules thqt got wrapped into volumes of 16 or so. Each one was "ok" but the plus side is they each have a decent kernel of a story that can be built on by a GM. They were good jump off points and the lack of strict connective tissue means GMs can splice them together as works best.

 

[R_J_K75]

I'm a fan of collections of adventures, like the old AEG mini modules thqt got wrapped into volumes of 16 or so. Each one was "ok" but the plus side is they each have a decent kernel of a story that can be built on by a GM. They were good jump off points and the lack of strict connective tissue means GMs can splice them together as works best.

I remember those. They were small pamphlet sized 4-8 page mini adventures IIRC. They werent great by any means but were an excellent starting point for a campaign or for an experienced DM to mine for ideas. For $5 they were a good investment, I used more than one

 

[Belen]

Heh heh... see, your views on what makes for great modules is a wonderful example to why it's impossible to find any consistency of opinion on this subject... because my views on it look to be the direct antithesis of yours.

Like I see the Against The Giants series and all I see are large maps filled with bunches of giants for which there's nothing to do but just to go through and kill them all. Which to me is exactly the kind of of module that I think is the least useful kind-- there's no story, nothing to hang your hat on except fighting. A lot of 4E D&D Insider modules were like that too... the only point was to have a series of battles (or "encounters") against various opponents, with just the barest hint of reasoning behind it. But my desires for a throughline as to why the characters are there and what they are doing (in addition to just fighting monsters) is not something that stands up to a lot of other people's reasoning for using modules.

You are not alone at all in your preferences on what makes for a great module, which is why none of us should ever take anyone else's opinions as gospel or an indication of an objective truth on what a good or bad modules is. All of us wants and needs so many different things from what a module or adventure can give us, that none of us are truly wrong. Every module will have its proponents and detractors.

I differ from you a bit. I appreciate those adventures because it tends to be easier to use them as a base to build my own story content. It really helps to have less defined so I can fit it into my own setting.

 

[R_J_K75]

It really helps to have less defined so I can fit it into my own setting.

I'd like to see more adventures presented as outlines with some tables to randomly roll up scenes/encounters then a linear point A to point Z walkthrough. Modern "adventure" design regardless of what system, from what I've seen is not good.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I remember those. They were small pamphlet sized 4-8 page mini adventures IIRC. They werent great by any means but were an excellent starting point for a campaign or for an experienced DM to mine for ideas. For $5 they were a good investment, I used more than one

Yeah, they got collected into hardcover books which are now on drivethru for $4/book with 24 adventures in each. They made a half-hearted attempt to turn them into a adventure paths but it's so half hearted they didn't even organize them in a level-based order or include a flow chart of the adventures.

However....$4 for 24 adventures. That's $0.17 each. How little value does a GM need to extract to feel good about their purchase? The long tail of the internet is a hard thing to fight at the low end.

Which is also why the only way WotC feels it's worth making adventures is to put together a $50 hardback, which by sheer need for word count is going to wind up as an adventure path.

 

[R_J_K75]

However....$4 for 24 adventures. That's $0.17 each. How little value does a GM need to extract to feel good about their purchase?

From what I recall they were adequate enough so at that price, even with the need to do some filling in of the blanks, thats a pretty good price. I think they were $4-$5 when they originally came out

 

[kigmatzomat]

I'd like to see more adventures presented as outlines with some tables to randomly roll up scenes/encounters then a linear point A to point Z walkthrough. Modern "adventure" design regardless of what system, from what I've seen is not good.

Have you read XDM? (X-treme Dungeon Mastery) It has a whole section on making a kind of scene-web. Here you start at 1, go through at least 2 other scenes and then get to the conclusion at 6.

____2‐‐‐>3
...../|\..../|\
1<..|...X..|.6
.....\|/...\|/
___4‐‐‐>5

It does mean some scenes may not get used but it's possible in a bigger adventure to put a given scene in 2 spots in the plot to reduce over-work.

 

[R_J_K75]

Have you read XDM? (X-treme Dungeon Mastery) It has a whole section on making a kind of scene-web. Here you start at 1, go through at least 2 other scenes and then get to the conclusion at 6.

____2‐‐‐>3
...../|\..../|\
1<..|...X..|.6
.....\|/...\|/
___4‐‐‐>5

It does mean some scenes may not get used but it's possible in a bigger adventure to put a given scene in 2 spots in the plot to reduce over-work.

No, I have not read it but I will look into it. I don't now and haven't played D&D for almost 2 years, but this sounds like it may work well with Mothership

 

[kigmatzomat]

No, I have not read it but I will look into it. I don't now and haven't played D&D for almost 2 years, but this sounds like it may work well with Mothership

It is not tied to d&d in any major way, aside from examples.

It's called Dungeon Mastery as Tracy Hickman is one of the authors and why wouldn't you make the indirect connection to Dragonlance?