Spoilers Agatha All Along discussion

[Kaodi]

Guys... what if Agatha All Along is actually bad?

 

[pukunui]

Guys... what if Agatha All Along is actually bad?

Huh? I thought it was great! Or am I missing the joke?

 

[Stalker0]

So I was pretty pleased with the finale. So I got some of the emotional beats I was looking for. The fact that the road was real but also "fake" explained a lot of Agatha's behavior, she didn't take it seriously because.....there was nothing to take serious. Billy finally had a moment of realizing the lives he had taken, a moment of grief and regret. Not long enough for "Real life" but for tv that's all I really needed.

It was cool and very realistic imo to show how a witch that has lived that long has influenced witch "history". She created a fairytale so believable that even witches today still believed it, which played into Agatha's manipulative personality.

I also like Alice's quick conversation with Rio, again that's death. Not plot armor, sometimes your story doesn't go the way you want it to. "Wait, but I just got freed of the curse, this isn't the end its the beginning!" "Rio: You are a protection witch, you died protecting someone"....and scene. That was nice.

I also appreciate that Agatha is still fundamentally villainous, we didn't really get a redemption, nor did I think she deserved one. While she serves a mentor role for billy mainly to cling to a memory of her son...but we will see if she is the angel or devil on his shoulder.


The only loose end for me....why was Rio trying to kill Agatha? I assume Agatha has lived past her time, but it couldn't have just been her loss of power, otherwise Rio would never have agreed to let her get it back, and when she did Rio still kicked her butt. My thought being....perhaps it was the Darkhold itself keeping Rio away from Agatha, and that was the loss that brought Rio back into the picture, but its never made clear.

 

[Kaodi]

Huh? I thought it was great! Or am I missing the joke?

Once I remembered to watch I watched the last two episodes raptly. I literally watch the the end of the credits every episode to see if there are extras, though there never were. But after all is said and done I feel like I am missing something in the Agatha All Along show. Like... the point.

 

[pukunui]

Once I remembered to watch I watched the last two episodes raptly. I literally watch the the end of the credits every episode to see if there are extras, though there never were. But after all is said and done I feel like I am missing something in the Agatha All Along show. Like... the point.

Hmm. The point to me was two-fold: the (partial?) redemption of Agatha and the origin of Billy as a superhero.

 

[Tonguez]

I think the finale is emotionally gritty enough.

I agree, actually having characters die and stay dead (mostly) is quite refreshing for the MCU and I particularly liked the mythic turn of Agatha's physical form becoming a garden. Equally I did like the tidbit that Green magic is tied to life cycle of both growth and decay, that loops in Loki as god of story/time too, which is neat (and of course theres that this iteration of Death is named 'River of Life'.)

Plus making it all Billys Wizard of Oz inspired 'dream' was a nice twist, invoking Wandavisions sitcoms and the whole 'Americana fairytale' tradition too.

It was a nice ending and keeps Agatha villainous and Billy ready for his superhero turn

 

[Kaodi]

Was Agatha redeemed though? To me it kind of seemed like the big reveal was that she was exactly as psychotic as Elanora made her out to be.

 

[Umbran]

The only loose end for me....why was Rio trying to kill Agatha?

Consider:

1) Rio is literally Death, the cosmic entity.
2) Rio does, in fact, love Agatha, and wants Agatha to be with her.

So, it isn't so much that Rio wants to kill Agatha, but that Rio wants Agatha to die and be with her. If Rio just kills Agatha, what kind of relationship would that be going forward?

I assume Agatha has lived past her time

I don't assume that. These witches living super-long times is a thing, part of how the universe works. Lilia and Jennifer were very old - even with powers bound for a century, Jennifer wasn't aging.

My thought being....perhaps it was the Darkhold itself keeping Rio away from Agatha, and that was the loss that brought Rio back into the picture, but its never made clear.

So, as above, Rio can't just take Agatha. For emotional reasons, Rio needs Agatha to choose to be with her. Or to come to her by some other agency.

When Wanda's spell finally breaks, Rio shows up because 1) Billy is there, and Rio has an interest in Billy, as he ought to be dead. And 2) the Salem Seven are coming for Agatha - getting on Agatha's good side when Agatha is about to die is a good idea.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Watched the final two episodes last night, and overall I was pleased with them. Enjoyed that the "Witches Road" turned out to be Agatha All Along.

One thing that I had to wonder is just how many witches are there in the MCU? It seems like they are everywhere. Strange how that has never come up before. (I know it's far from MCU's only world building inconstancy).

the fact that she was always seek out covens of witches to kill makes me think it might be something to do with extending her life

When Nicky asks why they kill witches, Agatha says, "to survive." Then on when Nicky decided to let a group of witches go, he dies that same night. Might be a coincidence, but it makes me wonder if all the deaths were keeping them both alive.

Was Agatha redeemed though?

She was Hollywood Redeemed, which is to say that she did one nice thing (save Billy) after a lifetime of terrible things. Much like how Darth Vader was "redeemed" at the end of Return of the Jedi.

I think Ghost Agatha could be starting on the path of redemption, but time will tell on that.

 

[Thomas Shey]

My own read is that Agatha's first coven kill (the one you see in Wandavision and briefly at the very start of this show was in self-defense, the next several were a trick to keep Nicolas alive and healthy (note he didn't die until after the one he made her skip), and then after that it was a big chunk of sunk cost fallacy and not-give-a-damn. Which doesn't make it any better, but allows you see how she got there. (I think the idea she did it to save Nicholas is supported by the subtext in her conversation with Rio about "Why don't you tell people the truth?")

I also think Billy is taking more responsibility for the death of the other three witches than he deserves. While he created the Road, I think how it played out with most of them was not under his control in any meaningful way.