D&D 2E Let's Read the AD&D 2nd Edition PHB+DMG!

[Staffan]

Going back and looking at the kits, I'd forgotten how many of the books had overlaps. There was a patrician kit for pretty much all of the classes, swashbuckler kits (with some differences) for warriors and rogues. Almost need to do a complete book of kits to consolidate date some of them. There may have been some small differences such as weapon proficiencies for wizards and warriors, but otherwise the benefits and penalties could have been the same.

I think Skills & Powers did something like that, as well as some setting books (e.g. Red Steel/Savage Coast).

Of course, some kits from the Complete books as well as various setting books did more than others in modifying the underlying class, sometimes to the extent that the result was really a new subclass (many of the kits from Jakandor were of this variety). But with Skills & Powers, you could in theory already do that within the class itself, so all the kits in it were fairly mundane (along the lines of 5e backgrounds).

I also recall that some of the kits were kind of dumb. The main one that comes to mind is the Amazon warrior kit, whose main ability is sucker-punching people who don't expect that a woman can fight. But the rest of the game is pretty clear that AD&D doesn't have gender discrimination, and women are just as eminently capable of fightering as men are.

 

[James Gasik]

The special benefits of many kits were lame early on, but don't underestimate a good list of bonus proficiencies! Even if you sometimes end up with a dud, like my Gladiator's Charioteering, lol.

 

[PHATsakk43]

I did go back and check.

Apparently, the use of the term "warriors" in the sentence regarding weapon specialization was a typo. It was addressed in a Sage Advice column in 1991 (Dragon #173) and was corrected in the 11th printing of The Complete Fighter's Handbook.

 

[cbwjm]

I think Skills & Powers did something like that, as well as some setting books (e.g. Red Steel/Savage Coast).

Of course, some kits from the Complete books as well as various setting books did more than others in modifying the underlying class, sometimes to the extent that the result was really a new subclass (many of the kits from Jakandor were of this variety). But with Skills & Powers, you could in theory already do that within the class itself, so all the kits in it were fairly mundane (along the lines of 5e backgrounds).

I also recall that some of the kits were kind of dumb. The main one that comes to mind is the Amazon warrior kit, whose main ability is sucker-punching people who don't expect that a woman can fight. But the rest of the game is pretty clear that AD&D doesn't have gender discrimination, and women are just as eminently capable of fightering as men are.

Haha, yeah the amazon wasn't a great kit, the benefit doesn't even benefit if against a party of level 5+.

The skills and powers kit comparison with 5e backgrounds is apt. They didn't do much from memory (I'd have to go back and reread, did they have benefits and hindrances?) but they did make it easier to lean into an archetype by making certain skills and abilities that fit the archetype cheaper.

 

[James Gasik]

I did go back and check.

Apparently, the use of the term "warriors" in the sentence regarding weapon specialization was a typo. It was addressed in a Sage Advice column in 1991 (Dragon #173) and was corrected in the 11th printing of The Complete Fighter's Handbook.

It's worth noting that the correction was the "phrase giving weapon specialization to all warriors is an error".

Does anyone know if the 11th printing made Complete Fighter's Kits unavailable to Paladins and Rangers?

 

[cbwjm]

It's worth noting that the correction was the "phrase giving weapon specialization to all warriors is an error".

Does anyone know if the 11th printing made Complete Fighter's Kits unavailable to Paladins and Rangers?

According to the core rules 2.0 expansion (that old PC generator software) the kits are still available to both paladins and rangers.

 

[James Gasik]

According to the core rules 2.0 expansion (that old PC generator software) the kits are still available to both paladins and rangers.

Ok that answers that question then, thanks.

 

[PHATsakk43]

The kits themselves were explicitly for all warriors—that would have taken a significant rewrite to change. There is an entire section where kits are introduced which discusses how the kits are available for all warriors including how even paladins could be pirates in certain situations. In the same section it does say that some kits are explicitly forbidden to some classes (with no examples provided).

There was another Sage Advice reply regarding the Bladesinger’s specialization being contrary to the PHB rule, and Skip says that the bladesinger’s specialization is not a weapon specialization but actually a new type of single-weapon fighting style specialization which is open to all classes so long as they take the kit and that bladesingers are still prohibited from weapon specialization due to their multiclass. Which sounds like a bladesinger could be a M/T or even a C/M in some circumstances.

This at least implies that kits that require weapon specialization are prohibited to characters that are prohibited from specialization except where that’s explicitly stated.

Again, kits are a bit of a mess. They were never included in any core rulebook or even hinted at even.

 

[James Gasik]

There's actually an example of this for the Gladiator, a kit that grants a free weapon specialization:

Curiously though, what is not said, is that this kit isn't suitable for a Paladin.

 

[rabindranath72]

The kits themselves were explicitly for all warriors—that would have taken a significant rewrite to change. There is an entire section where kits are introduced which discusses how the kits are available for all warriors including how even paladins could be pirates in certain situations. In the same section it does say that some kits are explicitly forbidden to some classes (with no examples provided).

There was another Sage Advice reply regarding the Bladesinger’s specialization being contrary to the PHB rule, and Skip says that the bladesinger’s specialization is not a weapon specialization but actually a new type of single-weapon fighting style specialization which is open to all classes so long as they take the kit and that bladesingers are still prohibited from weapon specialization due to their multiclass. Which sounds like a bladesinger could be a M/T or even a C/M in some circumstances.

This at least implies that kits that require weapon specialization are prohibited to characters that are prohibited from specialization except where that’s explicitly stated.

Again, kits are a bit of a mess. They were never included in any core rulebook or even hinted at even.

The kits were indeed a mess. But before the Complete X series, they first appeared in Zeb Cook's Time of the Dragon boxed set. They are specifically tailored to the setting, and they are wonderfully evocative. These are the only kits I ever used; never used any other kits (and for that matter, never used any of the Complete books, except a few bits from the Priest and Fighter books.)