D&D General Dark Sun as a Hopepunk Setting

[AnotherGuy]

People don't want to play "All too real life problems." So no, I really truly do not want to "engage with" global warming, runaway industrialization, lack of resources, and power mad elites who control everything. That's not a game.

I'll admit a setting with all those active ingredients bearing down on the PCs does require some care so as not to feel like an exercise in power-DMing.

 

[Mistwell]

Please speak for yourself. You don't want to play "All too real life problems". None of us individually are representative of "people" near enough to speak for them.

I'm doing just that. I am speaking for a majority of people who do not want to play with real life problems in their games. I think it's a completely fair assumption to make. It's really quite rare I'd go out on a limb and speak for a majority of people, but when discussing 1) a fantasy, and 2) game, I do in fact think it's totally fair to make this assumption as it's a basic assumption built into the concept. It is a core conceit of playing a fantasy tabletop roleplaying game that you are not attempting to replicate this world's real life problems, at least for this kind of game.

There are role playing games that could or would fit that kind of concept. D&D is not one of them. It's right there in the name the type of game D&D is, and I don't think it's rude or stepping on toes to just plainly state it. If you want to play real-life TTRPG, I can recommend some games built for that kind of concept.

I mean, it's so much not D&D that AD&D 1e even made fun of the concept as the opposite of D&D with a game they teasingly called Papers & Paychecks:

 

[Charlaquin]

I would change that to be more "Evil Capitalist" vibes rather than conquering warrior. Like. They KNOW what they're doing will destroy the world, but they do it anyway, for power and wealth. And it's less "Go murder innocents" and more "Innocents will die, but I'll save 20 cents a day if I use this power source to fuel my machines... welp. 20 cents a day isn't nothing!"

Personally I also envision an element of, “and if I save 20 cents a day while the cost of living increases for everyone else, pretty soon I’ll be the wealthiest person in a world of poor people.” Like, recognizing that the ecological toll not only increases their personal wealth, but also increases the wealth disparity, and counting that as win/win.

 

[Charlaquin]

There are high school history texts in the United States that are required to talk about the positive aspects of slavery. In 2024.

But the condescending paternalism of how the institution of slavery "helped" the people it enslaved in some way has been part of the conversation since the practice started and in a depressing amount of the world has not disappeared.

To be fair, in an academic context it is good to be aware of the arguments that have been made in favor of slavery, in order to analyze how and why those arguments fail. But, it really should be a strictly “studying the past so as avoid repeating it” endeavor.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nothing in that sentence suggests you're speaking to the community. You said more than one person likes that. At the very least, you and Lamefan. Unless I'm overreaching, both of you are 'people'. Done and dusted, there's not remote justification for pushback there.

Post #182 clearly indicates that @Mistwell is speaking for what they are claiming are a majority of people, and is apparently unapologetic about it. I stand by my statements.

 

[Charlaquin]

If hopepunk is answer to grimdark, isn't grimpunk answer to classic fantasy with black and white morality with Big Damn Heroes?

Every subgenre is in dialogue with its influences, yes.

 

[mamba]

I am not sure I have ever seen people talk about the "good" parts of slavery.

clearly you are not following US politics closely

New Florida standards teach that Black people benefited from slavery because it taught useful skills

The standards, which were blasted by a statewide teachers' union as a "step backward," were approved Wednesday by the State Board of Education.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm doing just that. I am speaking for a majority of people who do not want to play with real life problems in their games. I think it's a completely fair assumption to make. It's really quite rare I'd go out on a limb and speak for a majority of people, but when discussing 1) a fantasy, and 2) game, I do in fact think it's totally fair to make this assumption as it's a basic assumption built into the concept. It is a core conceit of playing a fantasy tabletop roleplaying game that you are not attempting to replicate this world's real life problems, at least for this kind of game.

There are role playing games that could or would fit that kind of concept. D&D is not one of them. It's right there in the name the type of game D&D is, and I don't think it's rude or stepping on toes to just plainly state it. If you want to play real-life TTRPG, I can recommend some games built for that kind of concept.

I mean, it's so much not D&D that AD&D 1e even made fun of the concept as the opposite of D&D with a game they teasingly called Papers & Paychecks:

This is just a variation of the "It's an elfgame" argument. People want different things out of gaming. For example, I want different things than you. Claiming your position as the majority is falsely inflating the validity of your position. What's wrong with just stating your position without making assumptions about the positions of others?

 

[Charlaquin]

People don't want to play "All too real life problems." So no, I really truly do not want to "engage with" global warming, runaway industrialization, lack of resources, and power mad elites who control everything. That's not a game.

Well, the game part is getting to imagine actually overcoming those challenges and making the world a better place. If we can’t even do that in our fantasies, we’ve given up any hope of doing so in real life. Hence the name, hopepunk. It was conceived as the antidote to the despair and defeatism inspired by grimdark, which tends to engage with those anxieties by wallowing in them instead of by imagining a way to overcome them.

 

[AnotherGuy]

clearly you are not following US politics closely

New Florida standards teach that Black people benefited from slavery because it taught useful skills

The standards, which were blasted by a statewide teachers' union as a "step backward," were approved Wednesday by the State Board of Education.

www.nbcnews.com

I cannot get into specifics, but I once had an uber driver decry a certain nation having colonised his homeland as opposed to another because then they would have had better infrastructure and that these other people don't realise how well they have it.

I was just blown away at the different perspective that would have not crossed my mind. Human history is a mess, but at least it is not yet Dark Sun right....