D&D General Dark Sun as a Hopepunk Setting

[Mistwell]

Fantasy is a very broad genre and can mean different things to different people.

Sure, but almost all of us can agree it's not supposed to replicate our actual life. Because that's pretty much the only thing making it fantasy: that it IMAGINES things, especially things that are impossible or improbable.

D&D is not going to be humans in 2024 going to work and doing pure accounting and typing stuff into a spreadsheet. It's going to involve imaginary elements which are not found in our world, on some level.

 

[abirdcall]

I would say that that's a completely unfair assumption to make. I wouldn't claim one way or another which would make up a "majority" of gamers, but I can absolutely point to the fact that some of the most famous and popular fantasy franchises (including games) are absolutely about something. One of the most popular fantasy video game franchises is Final Fantasy, and by far and away the most popular game in that franchise is Final Fantasy 7, which is definitely a game and has some things to say. Most good fantasy has things to say. Wheel of Time sure did. Hell, the ur-example, Lord of the Rings, has a hell of a lot of things to say. To say that calling to mind modern issues is antithetical to fantasy (or games) is completely counter-factual. The purpose of fiction in general is to say something.

Now, is there a difference between a work of fiction (even an interactive work of fiction, like a video game) and a tabletop roleplaying games? Sure. Does that mean all tabletop role-playing games (or even just D&D) are ill-equipped to address modern issues? Absolutely not. Every game I've run and played in has been about something relevant to me/my players. And I've played a lot of D&D. So to say that D&D isn't capable of doing such a thing is also counter-factual, and to say that it shouldn't be used to do such a thing is to declare a whole lot of people playing the game wrong, which I really hope you wouldn't be doing.

That's not to say that there's nothing wrong with pure escapism; it is definitely something that we all indulge in all the time. I wouldn't necessarily say that it's wrong to prefer it. But to say that's the only purpose of D&D or fantasy games is to ignore the absolutely transformative potential of role-playing games.

This is completely aside from your point but I was curious so I looked it up.

Apparently Final Fantasy X has sold the most copies and some consider it to be the most popular.

I would have thought VI would be the one with the most fond nostalgia. It is usually between VI and Chrono Trigger for people's favourite SNES jrpg (or game in general).

7 is certainly very popular too.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How is being "about something" being about "our specific something in real life?"



I think we're confusing positions here. I am saying a defining characteristic is it must have a flavor of fantasy to it, not that it cannot grapple with real issues under that guise of fantasy. Micha is saying it should LITERALLY be about our actual issues, and that it's wrong to claim it needs to be under a fantasy veneer, and that saying so is no better than claiming it's an "elfgame."

I don't recall claiming that. I'm saying that claiming that a majority don't want a game that is about something with grounding in our real world is not a supported position to take. You are nonetheless welcome to make it, regardless of what I think.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, but almost all of us can agree it's not supposed to replicate our actual life. Because that's pretty much the only thing making it fantasy: that it IMAGINES things, especially things that are impossible or improbable.

D&D is not going to be humans in 2024 going to work and doing pure accounting and typing stuff into a spreadsheet. It's going to involve imaginary elements which are not found in our world, on some level.

Sure, but that doesn't preclude some (maybe a lot) of aspects with real world relevance in one way or another.

 

[Mistwell]

I like a lot of fantasy elements. I also prefer a setting where, outside of those elements, the world operates very much like our own.

Well sure and I knew that about you and I don't begrudge you wanting that internal consistency. But darn dude, you like plenty of fantasy and imaginary elements in your D&D. I've seen you take joy in some of those things. It's why I am surprised you seem bothered I said hey, settings in D&D are going to include fantasy because it is in fact a fantasy themed TTRPG. Heck, even when they had D20 Modern ( a game I liked ) and D20 Future (a game I did not like) it still had a fantasy theme to it. Fantasy is what D&D does.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well sure and I knew that about you and I don't begrudge you wanting that internal consistency. But darn dude, you like plenty of fantasy and imaginary elements in your D&D. I've seen you take joy in some of those things. It's why I am surprised you seem bothered I said hey, settings in D&D are going to include fantasy because it is in fact a fantasy themed TTRPG. Heck, even when they had D20 Modern ( a game I liked ) and D20 Future (a game I did not like) it still had a fantasy theme to it. Fantasy is what D&D does.

That's not how I read what you said. If that's all you meant, then fair enough. Famtasy just means including fantasy elements. The genre makes no other assumptions as far as I know, and neither do I.

 

[mamba]

People don't want to play "All too real life problems." So no, I really truly do not want to "engage with" global warming, runaway industrialization, lack of resources, and power mad elites who control everything. That's not a game.

then don’t… I have no problem with a setting like that, there is no reason for it not exist, we can simply use different ones

 

[Steampunkette]

problem is towards the end any system that apathetic to life will likely start using mass murdering warlords as enforcers.

That's where the Templars come in! Essentially functioning as private for-pay armies of mercenaries. Only in the allegory, the payment is magical power and water in a world where both of those things are rare!

@Steampunkette what exactly is you plan anyway are you just making a reframing of it or something bigger project wise?

Ahhh hahahha... no. I'm not -planning- anything.

I'm still trying to get Martial Artistry out the door and I've got plans for Sunset Riders and Occult Omens, already.

Right now this is a fun thought experiment of how I would do it if I had the opportunity. But unless Jeremy Crawford shoots me a PM or hits me up on Discord or drops me an Email...

I don't see ever -actually- doing this as a product release. Both because I would make next to no money off of it (settings aren't big sellers for 3rd party designers) and I would get sued into the ground for WotC.

And it's not like I'm tower off the ground any distance as it stands.

I may think it'd be fun and cool, but I'm no Lanasa. I know not to poke the bear!

Personally I also envision an element of, “and if I save 20 cents a day while the cost of living increases for everyone else, pretty soon I’ll be the wealthiest person in a world of poor people.” Like, recognizing that the ecological toll not only increases their personal wealth, but also increases the wealth disparity, and counting that as win/win.

Oh, -absolutely-. And a big part of the "Money" is of course magic. Defiling magic. Because @Mistwell and @Micah Sweet this is an allegorical structure not literal.

The Ecological disaster of Athas in TSR's works was brought about by racism and lust for power with the humans literally wiping out the 'Lesser Races' because while it was an ecological disaster allegory it was also a racism allegory with minimal allegory...

While that is still a threat worth putting into allegory, I think a less overt form of it would work better in the modern day.

And if you don't wanna engage with climate change as a theme, Dark Sun in -any- edition really isn't the setting for you! 'Cause it was practically the "Grimdark Captain Planet" D&D setting.

 

[mamba]

I was just blown away at the different perspective that would have not crossed my mind. Human history is a mess, but at least it is not yet Dark Sun right....

give it another 50 to 100 years…

 

[Mind of tempest]

give it another 50 to 100 years…

eh I was putting mine on 30