What Non-D&D TSR RPGs Needs to be Revived?

[aramis erak]

I didn't get that as the point. Which I suppose should also be part and parcel of the Buck Rogers argument upthread...

The Buck Rogers XXVc Game was AD&D 2e mechanics. New classes, but instantly familiar to AD&D players.

Part of its problem, tho', was that of timing. It was grounded in the 40's and 50's Buck materials. But the 1979-1981 show was still too recent (less than a decade), and it was very different from the 1890's to 1950s flavors.

 

[Autumnal]

There are certainly stranger labors of love on there already, and less sellable ones.

The modular pod-ship technology (originally seen in the Vector 3 microgame) was also pretty neat (I'm one of the few people I know who actually kind of liked Delta Vee) and they added some great material through Ares, especially that shapeshifting xeno species. That article alone was on par with the best of the Traveller alien species writeups. I could see re-using the setting with d20 Future or perhaps Cepheus (which is more open to not using Traveller tech assumptions, thankfully).

I also liked Delta Vee. and agreed about those supplementary bits. Hmm, I’ve got Starforged right here.

 

[VelvetViolet]

Alternity's fine (and the settings were great) but I'm not sure it'd sell to more folks than Star Frontiers and it would be facing off against more modern designs like Cepheus without as much nostalgia power behind it as older games that lasted longer. OTOH, it would be cheaper to do reprints of without the (relatively) complex components shoved in all the TSR boxed set games. Something to be said for simple hardcovers and a few modules.

I have to completely disagree with this. Alternity was very successful during it initial run and was only cancelled because it wasn’t ridiculously successful by WotC’s inflated standards. The Cepheus system is a retroclone of Traveller 2d6 from the 80s, so it’s not more modern or somehow superior.

Here’s a thought: maybe ditch the Alternity rules and convert the settings to use 5e or Cepheus or whatever system Exodus is using? I don’t really care about the rules. Anyone can write rules for anything. It’s the settings that draw me in. Those are way harder to replace.

I’ve looked for years for something to replace Star*Drive, and nothing made for Cepheus has caught my interest. It must have over a thousand settings by now and not one of them interests me like Star*Drive does.

The Dark•Matter setting has zero competition at the moment. All other cryptid and conspiracy games I can remember have gone extinct, which is strange considering how popular cryptids are online. Monster of the Week exists, but none of its settings compare.

Sure, both settings have their flaws, but they were made by Bill Slavicsek. Who can compete with that? I’ve yet to find any other settings so charming and still supported by a publisher.

Unfortunately, I fully expect modern Hasbro would completely screw things up. God, I hate copyright law. Star*Drive and Dark•Matter won’t enter public domain until 2095.

Not impossible to imagine a fan doing something like that but leaving it system-agnostic - distill the essentials of a setting down to the fluff alone, change some names so you don't get a C&D letter, and then sell pdfs or even POD through DTRPG. There are certainly stranger labors of love on there already, and less sellable ones.

If it hasn’t already happened in the decades since their cancellation, then it’s probably not happening ever.

Speaking from experience, this is fairly easy to do for Dark•Matter because it draws from public domain cryptozoology, ufology, and conspiracy theory, but trying to retroclone Star*Drive is a lot harder because the setting is just so detailed, verbose and not tied into public domain stuff except for Roswell greys.

It’s really hard to compete with 90s era TSR. Those production values are something else.

Perhaps most importantly, I don’t want to write a legal substitute to avoid being sued, I want the original back. Two years of books is way too short for me to have gotten tired of the setting’s limitations and interested in writing a new one.

 

[Autumnal]

Conspiracy gaming, with rare exceptions like Delta Green, fell by the wayside mostly because of real-life developments. It all got less fun when classic crackpot ideas fell into the minds of leaders of major political parties and organs of state, who decide for bizarre reasons that groups including people in your gaming group must suffer and be driven out or exterminated.

It’s not impossible to do modern conspiracy stuff that doesn’t reek of such things. But it’s a lot of work for not very much reward, and it’s soul-draining.

 

[overgeeked]

Conspiracy gaming, with rare exceptions like Delta Green, fell by the wayside mostly because of real-life developments. It all got less fun when classic crackpot ideas fell into the minds of leaders of major political parties and organs of state, who decide for bizarre reasons that groups including people in your gaming group must suffer and be driven out or exterminated.

It’s not impossible to do modern conspiracy stuff that doesn’t reek of such things. But it’s a lot of work for not very much reward, and it’s soul-draining.

Exactly. I'd love to play a few conspiracy games, especially Over the Edge 3E, but there are just too many nutters out there who think it's all real and true.

 

[Micah Sweet]

TSR made a number of RPGs over the years, and none of them besides D&D have a currently published version. So, which TSR RPG would you like to see revived? How? In what form?

I want to answer "Gamma World" because I love Gamma World, and miss it, but my real answer is definitely Alternity -- and not the bland one that is currently out, the actual Alternity, including the phenomenal Star*Drive setting. Clean it up just a touch but leave the system mostly alone, please.

What do you want to see revived?

I want to say Marvel FASERIP, but the online community is handling the continuation of that game better than anyone else I can think of.

Maybe Gamma World? I certainly don't think WotC is a good choice for any version of D&D I favor anymore.

 

[VelvetViolet]

I don’t find it soul-draining to write conspiracy thrillers. I find it fun. I just ignore the stuff that doesn’t sound fun. There’s nothing wrong with just using the old-fashioned Rosicrucians, Templars, Freemasons, Roswell grey aliens, etc. and ignoring everything since 1999. Retro is always better.

Maybe Gamma World? I certainly don't think WotC is a good choice for any version of D&D I favor anymore.

I’ve seen a couple rpgs that do gonzo mutant futures, but they don’t seem to do the cryptic alliances. Those are a key feature of the setting that set it apart from imitators. I’m disappointed that they don’t do that.

As I recall, Darwin’s World had plenty of factions. But it was way more horror oriented than GW. It hasn’t received a book since 2013.

It’s sad to see that every setting eventually withers and dies. I wish there was some way to keep a setting alive indefinitely without any corporate mismanagement, such as, idk, releasing it into public domain or under creative commons.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don’t find it soul-draining to write conspiracy thrillers. I find it fun. I just ignore the stuff that doesn’t sound fun. There’s nothing wrong with just using the old-fashioned Rosicrucians, Templars, Freemasons, Roswell grey aliens, etc. and ignoring everything since 1999. Retro is always better.


I’ve seen a couple rpgs that do gonzo mutant futures, but they don’t seem to do the cryptic alliances. Those are a key feature of the setting that set it apart from imitators. I’m disappointed that they don’t do that.

As I recall, Darwin’s World had plenty of factions. But it was way more horror oriented than GW. It hasn’t received a book since 2013.

It’s sad to see that every setting eventually withers and dies. I wish there was some way to keep a setting alive indefinitely without any corporate mismanagement, such as, idk, releasing it into public domain or under creative commons.

That's the dream.

 

[Kannik]

Add my vote for Top Secret! As well as my agreement that the 'revised' TS released a few years ago was not fabulous. I Kickstarted it and got the shiny boxed set, but while the rules had one nifty concept in them (the unified target number ratcheting up and down as mission friction accumulates or is resolved), the rest of the system, and the book layout, and etc were half baked and not well done. The GM screen even had typos on it... :/

Still, Top Secret was my first RPG (hence my Kickstarting above) and I still love the superspy genre, so I'd like to see it return.

Does it? Really? I mean, I don't recall TSR2's version setting any sales records. Does it have anything distinctive beyond "spy game"?

IIRC, Spycraft sold well enough a decade ago, and I think this genre is currently underserved in the gaming market. Anything released may have to allude strongly to Mission Impossible, Bourne, James Bond, etc to entice people, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Just need to have the right kind of advertisement/copy text to let people know what it's all about.

And/or go the Top Secret/SI route with supplements that highlight and expand the gameplay into the specific sub-genres. And ff some of those could be licensed IP to help generate buzz and better solidify what the game supports it in people's minds, then go for it.

 

[VelvetViolet]

There’s a lot you could do with a spy rpg. Beyond the realistic and the action movie, you can do Espers. Despite the massive potential of Espers for storytelling, I can’t actually name any Esper media except Necroscope. Necroscope further complicates itself by introducing vampires, aliens, parallel worlds and stuff.

The only Esper spy rpg I remember, besides the oop Necroscope licensed game, is I Psi for QAGS.

I wish more rpgs did SRDs, really generous SRDs like what Pathfinder does. Every game that doesn’t do that either gets driven into the ground by corporate mismanagement, or it dies off due to cancellation or the individual owner having real life issues. The only people you can count on to keep a game alive are its fans. The more power you give them to do that, such as supporting themselves by selling supplements, the more likely the game is to last.

A spy RPG SRD with support for all the weird psionic shenanigans that go on in Brian Lumley novels would be great.