D&D General Dark Sun as a Hopepunk Setting

[Micah Sweet]

I might make a separate thread on this sometime, but there is a definite steep curve between what classes can do in TSR era D&D and what they can do in WotC era D&D, and the side effects on that complexity (harder to make, harder to modify) and certain design assumptions (TSR D&D made almost all class features prone to failure, whereas later D&D makes them more reliable).

That really comes into play when settings assume major revisions to classes. Mostly because those assumptions were built on those older assumptions that a class has fewer levers involved and those levers are prone to failure more often. Which is why the more mechanical changes needed, the more it affects everything else.

That ultimately puts a setting like Dark Sun in a predicament. You either accept the current system as it's written with minimal changes, or you basically start from scratch and build an exhaustive alternative set of character options to match the intended tone. Because very few players are going to accept a rules expansion that gives them less options than that core book alone gives.

Or you transplant the setting to a ruleset better suited to it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I realize there are a lot of people who are allergic to touching the 2024 D&D books, so this is the proof WotC has any interest in Dark Sun

Notice it's the only setting on that list that doesn't have its own book and isn't open on DMs Guild? And that Birthright and Mystara are not on this list? That tells me Dark Sun will probably be added at some point.

Or they know people want it and see $$ in keeping them on the hook.

 

[Remathilis]

Or you transplant the setting to a ruleset better suited to it.

Sure. I can run it using the Storyteller system if I want. But part of this conversation is how a Dark Sun seeing could be sold, and right now WotC is the only one who can sell it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure. I can run it using the Storyteller system if I want. But part of this conversation is how a Dark Sun seeing could be sold, and right now WotC is the only one who can sell it.

Yeah, I just don't see much likelihood and even less value in current-era WotC producing Dark Sun. So I was speculating on other ways to get the experience.

 

[Remathilis]

Or they know people want it and see $$ in keeping them on the hook.

There is no money in lying to people. Either they make a product to sell or they don't.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There is no money in lying to people. Either they make a product to sell or they don't.

As long as you don't close the door, they keep buying your stuff.

 

[Remathilis]

As long as you don't close the door, they keep buying your stuff.

Lol. No one is buying the 2024 books on the hopes of Dark Sun might get made one day.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Lol. No one is buying the 2024 books on the hopes of Dark Sun might get made one day.

Maybe not, but there's still no benefit to QotC in closing that door, whether or not they end up making anything.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I tend to agree with @Remathilis on this in that Mystara was mentioned in the 5e 2014 but appears absent from 5e 2024 (I do not have the books to 100% confirm) which indicates that Dark Sun is possibly still on the cards, once they are happy with their psionic system. I do not think its mention is merely a cash grab.

As a Mystara fan I'm happy they are leaving it alone.
The fandom produces more than enough content for me for inspiration, and doesn't worry about supposed metaphorical connections with real life. Inspiration and idea-sharing for good-storytelling is where it is at.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Lemme give a shot to a knock-off setting pitch, Gradine. See what y'all think.

Under the Shattered Sun
In the blighted wastelands of the once-azure world of Harad, thirteen warlords known as the Sorcerer Kings reign over what shredded remnants of civilization remain. The world burns underneath a darkened sun which covers half the sky and threatens to consume all. Those damned to live out their lives in this world toil and thirst, starve and die, to deliver tithes to the Sorcerer Kings to buy another day's water, another's days life.

In the vast wastelands beyond, horrors lurk within foreboding caves, rocky crags, and across the endless sands. What water may be found beyond the reach of the Sorcerer Kings is tainted, vile, and deadly to all who try to consume it. What plantlife is stunted, twisted, and swift to perish upon thirsty sands that drink deeply of the pitiful rains that fall.

Yet all is not lost. There are those who scrounge and gather, who prepare for the day when the reign of sorcerous tyrants comes to a bloody end. Who seek to restore what was lost, and to heal a shattered world. And in the darkest of times, a fire in the night can be seen for miles in every direction.

Cool! This could work, and work well.

Humble observations-

Nephilim instead of Sorcerer-Kings. This could be particularly appropriate if we think that the original sorcerer-kings were descendants of the cruel gods. This is what gave them an edge to throw down their ancestors, the actual divinities. Since they are not divine in of themselves, they are susceptible to mortal shenanigans. Once they have enough power to truly ascend then they will be beyond mortal reach.

I particularly like the idea that warlocks can / could be / are focused on making pacts with lost and broken powers. This is a situation where I would avoid the cleric, especially if part of the background is that the gods were cruel. However, I think having a warlock that bargains with the echos of Thor and Camazotz, for example, so that he can gain great strength, fly, see in the dark, and drop a thunderball every once in a while would be interesting.

I started thinking about how the Zevians have a different form of magic ("Astral", even) that focuses on stars, travel without movement, and other planar style abilities. They're trapped here like everyone else, but they can pull on and manipulate other planar energy to make interesting and unique mischief. A new monk (adept?) and perhaps paladin subclass(es) would be theme enhancing.

I can see the Marshal fitting well. Someone who is adept at leadership, so much so it is the focus of the class, would be a great hazard to the elite. Heralds are reskinned paladins?

Mutants abound, and the Unique let people play anything that doesn't quite fit. I like it.

Elementaari- hmm. I'm sure someone worked very hard workshopping the name.

Great pitch. This would be fun to work on.