D&D (2024) Hazirawn/flaming Weapon+ Pact of the Blade

[Paul Farquhar]

What this really means though is it is a huge nerf for non-magic Fighter and Barbarian builds

They also appear to be converting immunity to physical damage into resistance. But there are more “force bows” and the like in the new DMG.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

force is telekinesis, it's bigby's hand

Why don’t they do bludgeoning damage?

 

[ECMO3]

Yes, because that adds to the weapons normal damage, doing the same type of damage.

It does the same type of damage, but the +1 on a dagger +1 adds to the damage of a "normal dagger" in the same fashion as the +1d6 on a dragontooth dagger adds to the damage of a normal dagger.

What you are essentially saying is you convert any extra damage that adds to the weapon damage if it is the same type as the weapon, but not if it is of a different type. This is fundamentally a different argument than saying any additional damage is not converted.

Sneak attack damage is also converted, since it adds to the weapons normal damage. Paladin smites are not.

Paladin smites are not converted because they are not part of the weapons "normal damage type". Just like Hunter's Mark or Hex or something that is additional damage on top of the damage done by the weapon. I think this is true regardless of how you define "normal damage type"


Sneak Attack damage however does not follow this. Sneak attack damage is specifically "The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type." Sneak attack damage is NOT the same as the damage done by the attack, nor the same as the damage done by the weapon it is the damage done by the "weapon type" specifically. If you are arguing that the "normal damage type" for a dragontooth dagger is only piercing, and never anything else, then there is no argument to ever change sneak attack with pact of the blade.

As I said on my first post, this is what I see as RAW. At my table I would let them change all damage regardless.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

normal dagger

It’s not the dagger that’s normal.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Sneak Attack damage however does not follow this. Sneak attack damage is specifically "The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type." Sneak attack damage is NOT the same as the damage done by the attack, nor the same as the damage done by the weapon it is the damage done by the "weapon type" specifically. If you are arguing that the "normal damage type" for a dragontooth dagger is only piercing, and never anything else, then there is no argument to ever change sneak attack with pact of the blade.

The Normal Damage type for a Dragon Tooth Dagger is piercing cause that's what a dagger does unless it changed by some ability like the Warlock one. When you hit with it it does extra acid damage this is not part of it's damage type that is an ability of the dagger.

If you were a warlock rogue multi class for some reason with Pact of the Blade. You could change your weapon's damage type to something like radiant, and the sneak attack damage would become radiant cause it's the same as the weapon's type and the weapon damage type changed to Radiant.

 

[ECMO3]

If you were a warlock rogue multi class for some reason with Pact of the Blade. You could change your weapon's damage type to something like radiant, and the sneak attack damage would become radiant cause it's the same as the weapon's type and the weapon damage type changed to Radiant.

If this is your view then what about the +1 on a +1 Dagger. That is "extra damage" afforded by the magic weapon the same as the acid is for a Dragontooth Dagger.

Moreover if you are basing this on "weapon type" then you need to be consistent. Sneak attack does not do the same damage as the weapon nor the same damage as the attack (in this case Radiant, Psychic or Necrotic). Sneak attack does the same damage as the "weapon type". If a "dagger type" is always piercing, regardless of what the weapon itself does, then sneak attack also does piercing with that attack if this is your position.

Moreover what about a Sunblade? Can you change that to psychic with pact of blade and if you change it is it all the dice or just one die?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It seems pretty obvious to me that the RAI is to change only the weapon's inherent base damage, not the damage added by cantrips, weapon enchantments, or spell effects.

That's certainly how my 5e DMs have run it when it comes up.

 

[Zardnaar]

It seems pretty obvious to me that the RAI is to change only the weapon's inherent base damage, not the damage added by cantrips, weapon enchantments, or spell effects.

That's certainly how my 5e DMs have run it when it comes up.

Maybe boosts to normal damage eg magic weapons or sneak attack would be included.

It's ambiguous enough I wouldn't argue with a DM about it if they ruled differently.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Maybe boosts to normal damage eg magic weapons or sneak attack would be included.

It's ambiguous enough I wouldn't argue with a DM about it if they ruled differently.

I mean, making it all radiant or all psychic is actually a huge boon, since almost nothing is immune to both and few things even resist both (or are resistant to one and immune to the other). Making it actually keep the fire/etc. would be a nerf, not a buff, in the vast majority of cases. This isn't like 4e, where you can make a weapon do fire-and-ice damage or psychic-and-radiant damage.

 

[Zardnaar]

I mean, making it all radiant or all psychic is actually a huge boon, since almost nothing is immune to both and few things even resist both (or are resistant to one and immune to the other). Making it actually keep the fire/etc. would be a nerf, not a buff, in the vast majority of cases. This isn't like 4e, where you can make a weapon do fire-and-ice damage or psychic-and-radiant damage.

Aware. It's a big boost for sneak attack. Not so much for a +1,2 or 3 weapon.

I don't see to many warlock/ rogues being a problem though.

Badic +2 weapon is 4k do modest buff in Tier 2.

Radiant danage is very good though. Force and psychic as well.

Warlocks probably an S tier class when it matters.