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D&D Monster Manual (2025)

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Yeah, but that's the problem with most media where new stories get added; they always change something retroactively. I mean, Marvel or Star Wars or Doctor Who is always recontextualizing something in light of a new revelation, a new as of yet unheard of faction, an undiscovered location, etc. That's not even including the changes of side stories (did you hear about the time Luke has a yellow lightsaber?) or prequels (hey, Boba Fett knows who Obi-Wan was) do.
I agree and I roll with it. I am just trying to explain the the Blood War, to me didn't feel simply additive at the time, but a true retcon and invalidation of previous lore. Heck I even accept the Blood War in my setting now (to some extent).
 

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I sort of care too - I grew up reading the Forgotten Realms books, and the canon explanation is something that’s existed the whole time. It’s weird to change the lore for the setting that way. The statblock, however, would be fine, and I think it’s at the very least an interesting change.

Sure, I can get caring. I care about things too. But I think there are levels.

For example, I remember a discussion with someone about Big Luigi from Spelljammer. I guess in old lore he was literally nigh-omnisicent and could see through the game to know that the characters were merely scraps of paper on your dinner table. The person I was discussing with was deeply upset that Luigi was only a near-genius level intellect who knew secrets of the multiverse and not literally knowing everything.

To me, changes like that are pretty minor and easy to sweep away. Even if your game relied on that fact, it would not be difficult to use the older omniscient version of the character.

On a more difficult level, the Scro don't seem like they are going to get ported over. And that's a bigger change, that is an entire faction. I can get being upset if they were a favorite of yours.

But, from my observations, it seems that in this thread the issue is incredibly minor details, only counting since the 5e, while ignoring and not caring about sweeping changes that happened pre-5e. Which doesn't read as particularly honest on the part of the people who are loudly complaining.
 

I didn't like Expedition to Castle Ravenloft either, so I ignored it. At the time, it felt like a one-off, and I still thought there was hope WotC would continue the throughline Arthaus produced in their long 3e run of the setting (which I loved, and which dovetailed nicely from the 2e material). As far as the novels, I read a lot of Star Wars and Star Trek novels too, none of which were considered canon, especially if they were contradict by material onscreen, so I was used to taking novels with a grain of salt and just enjoyed them for what they were when they differed from the game material. Even 4e wasn't a huge problem, because they didn't cover existing setting material, and the Shadowfell thing had little practical effect. VRGtR really was different from my perspective, and if you can't understand why after the many, many times I've explained it I don't know what to tell you.

No, I don't understand how "Goblins are now Fey" is somehow a crime against Lore, while "The elemental plans are mixed together like a chunky soup, all elemental are now mixed beings, demons are born from the elemental planes and the Lord of The Nine is now a God" was to quote you "not a huge problem"

It seems like one of those things, which happened again back years ago at this point with the release of Monsters of the Multiverse, is much much less impactful.
 

Revising lore in a way that overwrites it is something that converges on being metaplot. It changes things in a way that affects home games. That's what I object to. Expand, elaborate, good! Overwrite, retcon, bad.

I will actually object that nuance is needed here. Overwriting and retconning can not only be good, but be incredibly necessary.

A few examples:

- Per old lore, Ettercaps were once druids who wildshaped into spiders and lived their lives as spiders. But then they did what spiders did and cannibalized their young (a thing some spiders do do in real life) so the Gods of Nature cursed them for committing this act against nature. Which was cannibalism. Something that is a well-documented fact of over 1,500 species of animals. Why didn't the Gods of Nature curse all actual alligators, rabbits, spiders, frogs, ect ect ect

- Per old lore, Lizardfolk exist because thinking is bad. They used to all be one divine being, but then that being began thinking, and since it thought, it split into many different beings. And so to return to divinity you need to not think about anything ever. Even survival should not concern you.

- Neogi. Pretty much everything about the Neogi. I've heard they were created solely to be so horrifically evil that it could make sense for the PCs to work with Mindflayers in Spelljammer, because the designers thought working with Mindflayers in Spelljammer was cool.

You may disagree with me on some of these, all of these, or none of these. But there have been some absolutely atrocious lore decisions over the past 50 years of the game, and them being retconned is better for the health of the game as a whole.
 


Can't speak to Eberron (never got into it), but my understanding is that the history of the setting remained frozen at the same spot from 3e to now, and none of the setting details in the world changed, rather more detail has been added over the years.
There have been significant retcons to the Eberron setting literally every time it has gotten an edition update. For your own sake, I’m glad you aren’t an Eberron fan, because there’s no way you’d be able to handle all of the retcons. If the destruction of the Core in Ravenloft made you hate modern 5e, the inclusion of Baator in 4e Eberron would have given you a heart attack.

For an example, let’s take the Aasimar. Aasimar aren’t a major part of Eberron and were originally assumed to work as they did in the rest of the D&D Multiverse (being the child of an Angel and Human).

But then, still in 3E I believe, Keith Baker had a really cool idea on how to make Eberron’s Aasimar interesting and unique to the setting by merging them with the Yuan-Ti. The Shulassakar became Eberron’s Aasimar, they’re divine Yuan-Ti connected to the (mostly) extinct Couatls. They look like normal Yuan-Ti, but have feathers, psionic powers, and worship the Silver Flame. Some more powerful versions have Cleric magic and wings.

Then in 5e, Keith had another cool idea; tying Aasimar to different religions and planes of existence instead of specific divine ancestors. So now we have Aasimar that are the physical manifestations of the Silver Flame, Blood of Vol, the necrotic energies of Mabar, and so on. You can be a Seeker that believes so much in your own internal divinity that it awoke the divine spark in your soul and transformed you into a vampiric Aasimar. Or an emaciated High Elf Aasimar transformed by the collective faith of their people.

(I don’t know if or how Aasimar were integrated in 4e. Did 4e Eberron have Daevas?)

In my Eberron, Angels and other divine entities are too otherworldly and aloof to have children with mortals, so I chose to implement both 5e’s Exploring Eberron Aasimar and the Shulassakar. Hell, I ignore the Shulassakar’s canon rivalry with the Yuan-Ti and make it so they are the only Yuan-Ti on Eberron.

This is the benefit of not caring about canon or retcons. I get to choose the lore for any given species in my version of the setting regardless of the edition. Shulassakar haven’t appeared in 5e yet, but I think they’re cool and still use them. I think base D&D Aasimar are bland and uninspiring, so I make my own versions for my own game, usually using the base mechanics. Aasimar in my setting are xenophobic isolationists that think they’re better than everyone else because of their divine blood and build their cities in the irradiated ruins of an ancient empire (partially based on Fallout’s ghouls).

Lore is meant to inspire games, not to be the sacred texts everyone has to use for their games. Canon is a curse that often prevents new, imaginative versions of older lore in the name of tradition.
 
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