My "Savage" Experience

[Retreater]

Last night's session included a combat with 32 enemies, 5 NPCs, and my 5 players.

To streamline it, I cut half the enemies - they were mounts and I just used them for speed and didn't track their wounds or let them attack. Still, the combat took 1.5 hours, and it felt like it dragged on. The enemies had 10 Toughness, and most players' attacks did nothing (no Wounds, no Shaken). The enemies did 2d8 damage, and most of the time did nothing to the characters (no Wounds, no Shaken).

It felt like 1.5 hours of "hit, your attack did nothing; next person - hit, your attack did nothing; etc."

 

[Reynard]

Last night's session included a combat with 32 enemies, 5 NPCs, and my 5 players.

To streamline it, I cut half the enemies - they were mounts and I just used them for speed and didn't track their wounds or let them attack. Still, the combat took 1.5 hours, and it felt like it dragged on. The enemies had 10 Toughness, and most players' attacks did nothing (no Wounds, no Shaken). The enemies did 2d8 damage, and most of the time did nothing to the characters (no Wounds, no Shaken).

It felt like 1.5 hours of "hit, your attack did nothing; next person - hit, your attack did nothing; etc."

Did you adjust how you ran things between the prior sessions and this one? Did you increase the flow and use of Bennies? Did the players take more advantage of the games rules?

 

[Retreater]

Did you adjust how you ran things between the prior sessions and this one? Did you increase the flow and use of Bennies? Did the players take more advantage of the games rules?

I demonstrated how gang-up worked with the enemies. Because the party was so badly outnumbered, they couldn't use that rule.

They did use the increased RoF for their weapons, but it didn't help with the damage. Players would hit with 3 shots, none of them getting past Toughness. Basically, it succeeded in slowing the game down more.

Wild Attacks weren't really an option because they weren't using Fighting (they had guns).

I guess I could've given more Bennies. I tried to give one every time someone did something interesting, made any attempt of roleplaying, and of course when someone pulled a Joker. I'd say most players ended up getting 3 Bennies in addition to the starting 3 in a 3.5-hour game.

 

[Reynard]

I demonstrated how gang-up worked with the enemies. Because the party was so badly outnumbered, they couldn't use that rule.

They did use the increased RoF for their weapons, but it didn't help with the damage. Players would hit with 3 shots, none of them getting past Toughness. Basically, it succeeded in slowing the game down more.

Wild Attacks weren't really an option because they weren't using Fighting (they had guns).

I guess I could've given more Bennies. I tried to give one every time someone did something interesting, made any attempt of roleplaying, and of course when someone pulled a Joker. I'd say most players ended up getting 3 Bennies in addition to the starting 3 in a 3.5-hour game.

I guess I am just confused by your motivation to keep running the game in a way that makes it more tedious and bland than intended. At the very least, dial down the enemy toughness scores or hand out weapons that do more damage, as folks have suggested in this thread.

i mean, if you are just aiming to prove that Savage Worlds isn't fun, you seem to be succeeding, but why bother?

 

[thullgrim]

Did you remember that a raise on a to roll grants an additional d6 damage?

Bennies can be used to reroll damage.

You can always reduce Toughness. Start by knocking it down to an 8. At Toughness 7 on 2d6 they are netting a Shaken on most damage rolls.

Bad guys want to go home at night too. Nothing wrong with having morals rolls or making them flee. At simple spirit test when the lay lose half their number for instance.

You can also look at a simple house rule where instead of a d6, the additional damage die for a raise on the attack is a d10.

Finally if there’s not a significant reason to use the full blown combat rules, meaning the fight isn’t (a) interesting in some way or (b) narratively important then use a Quick Encounter or Dramatic Task, both with the dangerous options, to resolve it.

 

[dbm]

I think I know which that fight was (takes place on landmass Two?). My players handled it fine, and they are not all tuned for combat. Quite the opposite. So it’s hard to say why your group are struggling.

Some suggestions / questions? Did the two sides start out far enough apart that the PCs couldn’t easily be rushed in the first round? Did you play them somewhat cautious rather than having them all just rush the PCs? When I ran the fight I am thinking of, the party had a round or two to try and soften them up, and they adopted a bit of a ‘refused flank’ so the NPCs didn’t all land on them en-mass.

Another question, this one about the interleaving of other adventures between the plot points. I run at least one incidental adventure between each plot point item, sometimes two. I am also fairly generous with advances so the PCs have 1-2 advances between each stage of the plot point campaign. How are you pacing things?

 

[Retreater]

I guess I am just confused by your motivation to keep running the game in a way that makes it more tedious and bland than intended. At the very least, dial down the enemy toughness scores or hand out weapons that do more damage, as folks have suggested in this thread.

I did outfit the group with new weapons before the encounter. They went from pistols to machine guns. I was hoping it would be enough. I think I'll need to take the Toughness down next time.

Our previous session had a battle with 6 mooks with the same Toughness as this battle (10). They were all dead before they got an action.

Did you remember that a raise on a to roll grants an additional d6 damage?

I did. Even when it did come up, it didn't impact the damage enough to wound the target.

Bennies can be used to reroll damage.

They did that, and unfortunately kept getting between 6-7 damage on average.

You can always reduce Toughness. Start by knocking it down to an 8. At Toughness 7 on 2d6 they are netting a Shaken on most damage rolls.

Right. I think that's what I need to do. It's strange that most of the stock enemies in that adventure have a Toughness 10 and most weapons do 2d6 or 2d8.

You can also look at a simple house rule where instead of a d6, the additional damage die for a raise on the attack is a d10.

That seems like a good idea. I just wanted to try it RAW before I started homebrewing stuff.

 

[Retreater]

I think I know which that fight was (takes place on landmass Two?). My players handled it fine, and they are not all tuned for combat. Quite the opposite. So it’s hard to say why your group are struggling.

Some suggestions / questions? Did the two sides start out far enough apart that the PCs couldn’t easily be rushed in the first round? Did you play them somewhat cautious rather than having them all just rush the PCs? When I ran the fight I am thinking of, the party had a round or two to try and soften them up, and they adopted a bit of a ‘refused flank’ so the NPCs didn’t all land on them en-mass.

Yeah, I don't know either. My group seems to be fairly combat-centric. Some encounters are a breeze and some are frustratingly long - not necessarily deadly, just not interesting with lots of misses/failure to damage.

The PCs moved toward the enemies and attempted diplomacy. They failed, so there was a bit of a stand-off. One of the PCs decided he was done waiting and opened fire. At that stage, the enemies were within charging range on their mounts (Pace 10).

 

[Thomas Shey]

I


Right. I think that's what I need to do. It's strange that most of the stock enemies in that adventure have a Toughness 10 and most weapons do 2d6 or 2d8.

2D6 is underpowered for enemies with 10 Toughness, but 2D8 shouldn't really be; between the not-uncommon attack raises tossing an extra D6 on, simple high rolls, and open ended dice, some of that should be getting through fairly frequently (especially since you indicated they were using bursts). I'd have to conclude either something was being done wrong or there was some serious dice aberrations. After all, when rolling 2D8, you expect at least one 8 (and thus reroll) about a quarter of the time.

 

[Reynard]

2D6 is underpowered for enemies with 10 Toughness, but 2D8 shouldn't really be; between the not-uncommon attack raises tossing an extra D6 on, simple high rolls, and open ended dice, some of that should be getting through fairly frequently (especially since you indicated they were using bursts). I'd have to conclude either something was being done wrong or there was some serious dice aberrations. After all, when rolling 2D8, you expect at least one 8 (and thus reroll) about a quarter of the time.

That is an interesting question for @Retreater -- you are counting exploding dice in damage, too, right?