My "Savage" Experience

[Staffan]

There's some easy ways to get a rough idea from eyeing Defense, Toughness, and attack and damage dice, but its never going to be super reliable (of course that can be true in the D20 sphere too, just because D20's themselves have such swing).

D20 generally feels more predictable at mid levels because the hit point cushion is big enough that the swings mostly cancel each other out. This is less true at low levels (because your cushion is pretty small) and high levels (because there are too many things that bypass your hit points), but in the mid levels it can be fairly predictable.

 

[Thomas Shey]

D20 generally feels more predictable at mid levels because the hit point cushion is big enough that the swings mostly cancel each other out. This is less true at low levels (because your cushion is pretty small) and high levels (because there are too many things that bypass your hit points), but in the mid levels it can be fairly predictable.

The problem is, all you need to have happen for that to feel not true is a selection of high rolls on the other side. It might be made worse by some of the specifics of that system, but I've watched one player in my 13th Age game get beat like a drum because the D20 just decided on my end it wasn't going to roll anything less than a 16 for about six successive rolls. If you run for a while with a D20 game (or a percentile game, far as that goes), you'll just get that sort of thing. Its not the "one godawful series of open ended die rolls blowing up all over you" you can get in SW (especially with damage) but the effect is much the same.

 

[Reynard]

D20 generally feels more predictable at mid levels because the hit point cushion is big enough that the swings mostly cancel each other out. This is less true at low levels (because your cushion is pretty small) and high levels (because there are too many things that bypass your hit points), but in the mid levels it can be fairly predictable.

The problem is, all you need to have happen for that to feel not true is a selection of high rolls on the other side. It might be made worse by some of the specifics of that system, but I've watched one player in my 13th Age game get beat like a drum because the D20 just decided on my end it wasn't going to roll anything less than a 16 for about six successive rolls. If you run for a while with a D20 game (or a percentile game, far as that goes), you'll just get that sort of thing. Its not the "one godawful series of open ended die rolls blowing up all over you" you can get in SW (especially with damage) but the effect is much the same.

While the d20 can be swingy and there certainly cab be runs in either direction, the output tends to be less swingy than SWADE. Exploding damage dice create a lot of uncertainty.

 

[Staffan]

The problem is, all you need to have happen for that to feel not true is a selection of high rolls on the other side. It might be made worse by some of the specifics of that system, but I've watched one player in my 13th Age game get beat like a drum because the D20 just decided on my end it wasn't going to roll anything less than a 16 for about six successive rolls. If you run for a while with a D20 game (or a percentile game, far as that goes), you'll just get that sort of thing. Its not the "one godawful series of open ended die rolls blowing up all over you" you can get in SW (especially with damage) but the effect is much the same.

Sure, but with d20 you need a series of rolls. With Savage Worlds, a single explosion can turn you into red mist. Well, two bad rolls really: one big damage roll and one failed Soak.

 

[cbwjm]

Yeah. It's a puzzle. She's done okay with Powered by the Apocalypse, D&D 5e and 4e, and Dragonbane. Savage Worlds just seems to be hitting a wall.

Colour separation might help, make the wild die a specific colour d6 that no one else has and have them use that as a wild die. Separate colours, separate roll. Telling them it's similar to advantage in 5e as someone else mentioned might also help.

 

[Reynard]

Colour separation might help, make the wild die a specific colour d6 that no one else has and have them use that as a wild die. Separate colours, separate roll. Telling them it's similar to advantage in 5e as someone else mentioned might also help.

"Roll these two dice and take the higher result."

I cannot figure out how that is a difficult concept.

 

[cbwjm]

"Roll these two dice and take the higher result."

I cannot figure out how that is a difficult concept.

Yeah, it's surprising what some people can't get, but if they're somewhat new to the system they probably have a lot of other info floating around in their head which they're trying to grasp.

 

[Thomas Shey]

While the d20 can be swingy and there certainly cab be runs in either direction, the output tends to be less swingy than SWADE. Exploding damage dice create a lot of uncertainty.

Eh, not sure; with D20 the swings tend to be about being effected at all, where most of the time with SWADE its a question of how effected. You can get a certain number of open ended attack rolls land in SWADE and its no big deal because the damage lands low enough it doesn't do anything, whereas the nature of the combat system in D&D style games means that if that D20 rolls well, you will take damage, even if not necessarily a lot (though to what degree that's true various considerably).


That said, those occasions where the open-ended die roll means you just went from fresh to three Wounds in SW are certainly--memorable. They're like collecting a crit in RQ in that regard.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Sure, but with d20 you need a series of rolls. With Savage Worlds, a single explosion can turn you into red mist. Well, two bad rolls really: one big damage roll and one failed Soak.

Usually, in practice, that's multiple rolls too. If someone is Toughness 10 and gets hit by 2D8+2 damage, chances are it takes more than 1D8 to reroll before you're going to get smashed by that. After all, to get 3 Wounds you probably had to get 12 over their Toughness.

 

[thullgrim]

It should be pointed out that in SWADE even taking four wounds isn’t a dead character. They are Incapacitated, get to roll on the table. There’s a chance they die with the table roll but it’s rare.

An Incapacitated party is just another chance for adventure after they wake up imprisoned or left for dead after being looted.