NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

[Celebrim]

Agree 100%, but reading your post made me realize that perhaps some people who disagree are coming from the position of believing that you shouldn't have to have these skills in order to DM. And that's actually a really interesting question. Should you have to be a good actor in order to be a good DM? Or is it fine that some DMs can pull off humor and deception, and other DMs have to rely on other tools?

If you can't act to some extent, you'll never be as good of a GM as a person who can. If you don't have the spatial skills to make interesting maps, you'll never be as good of a GM as a person who can. If you don't have the tactical skills to play monsters and NPCs to the best of their abilities in combat, you'll never be as good of a GM as a person who can. If you don't have the fortitude to make lots of notes in preparation to play, you'll never be as good of a GM as one who does. If you can't do voice work to some extent, it harms your ability to GM compared to someone who can. If you can't craft a fine dramatic story you'll never be as good of a GM as someone who can. If you can't narrate a compelling visual picture, you'll never be as good of a GM as someone who can.

As a GM, you have to wear a lot of hats. Very few of us are great at all those hats, but your job as a GM is to lean hard into the areas you are good at, while working your best to make up for the deficiencies you may have in other areas.

Sadly, GMing is a skill. Just as with athleticism, we might not all have the capacity to be world class. But that doesn't mean even if we can't be world class, that there isn't value in developing the capacity we do have.

 

[Celebrim]

If so, that raises a difficult question (at least for me): are social mechanics there as scaffolding for DMs who can't amuse/deceive/persuade, or are they meant to replace those skills for all DMs?

No, because they literally can't replace those skills. An NPC telling a funny joke and declaring that an NPC has told a funny joke and is amusing because they made a difficult charisma check are always two different non-equivalent experiences.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

No, because they literally can't replace those skills. An NPC telling a funny joke and declaring that an NPC has told a funny joke and is amusing because they made a difficult charisma check are always two different non-equivalent experiences.

"The NPC rolled 25 on their joke roll, you're very amused."

 

[cranberry]

Which is fine. I think it is important part of GMing skills to be able to portray such things.

This almost sounds like the The Matt Mercer effect...

 

[Crimson Longinus]

This almost sounds like the The Matt Mercer effect...

It was always true. Mercer is just an example of a GM that is good at it.

 

[Hriston]

"The NPC rolled 25 on their joke roll, you're very amused."

"Why aren't you laughing? I thought you were here to roleplay your character!"

 

[payn]

What game has a joke roll mechanic?

 

[soviet]

What game has a joke roll mechanic?

Many games have laughable mechanics

 

[Hriston]

What game has a joke roll mechanic?

D&D 5E has Charisma (Performance) check.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Different play for different folks.

Right! And the correct solution to a conflict of styles…if one is unable to just roll with it (no play on words intended)…is to find like-minded people, rather than force compliance.