Dragonbane general thread

[overgeeked]

I'm fine with the philosophy of letting go of dead PCs, but this feels like a worst of both worlds situation for me. If they want people to let of dead PCs, then don't include Resurrection at all. However, I don't particularly like Resurrection as is because I loathe attribute loss, which was something that I was happy to see gone in D&D. I think that there are other ways that they could have made Resurrection costly without resorting to attribute loss. It feels more punitive than costly, and I would prefer the latter.

I get that feeling. But it’s more likely a distinction that makes a difference to you because you loathe (bold and italics) attribute loss. The difference between costly and punitive is one of perception or preferences. If there’s no resurrection people will complain. If there’s no real cost, something weighty and meaningful like attribute loss, then it will quickly become common. This keeps it as an option but makes it a meaningful choice. How badly do you want to res that dead character? Is it worth the cost and risk? I absolutely love that kind of risk, reward, cost setup. Keep things interesting.

 

[Wolfpack48]

I get that feeling. But it’s more likely a distinction that makes a difference to you because you loathe (bold and italics) attribute loss. The difference between costly and punitive is one of perception or preferences. If there’s no resurrection people will complain. If there’s no real cost, something weighty and meaningful like attribute loss, then it will quickly become common. This keeps it as an option but makes it a meaningful choice. How badly do you want to res that dead character? Is it worth the cost and risk? I absolutely love that kind of risk, reward, cost setup. Keep things interesting.

It’s always been the tension between feeling heroic as a character but also the (good) sense of danger when facing foes or challenges. It’s especially a challenge in fantasy over horror. Horror characters are supposed to feel outmatched but fantasy characters rise to the challenge. We don’t want to swat them down too easily but we also don’t want them to feel invincible.

 

[Aldarc]

I get that feeling. But it’s more likely a distinction that makes a difference to you because you loathe (bold and italics) attribute loss. The difference between costly and punitive is one of perception or preferences. If there’s no resurrection people will complain.

There is no resurrection in Fabula Ultima, but to the best of my knowledge, no one is complaining. Admittedly part of the reason is because PCs can only die under certain conditions.

If there’s no real cost, something weighty and meaningful like attribute loss, then it will quickly become common. This keeps it as an option but makes it a meaningful choice. How badly do you want to res that dead character? Is it worth the cost and risk? I absolutely love that kind of risk, reward, cost setup. Keep things interesting.

IMHO, a better alternative would be reducing the caster's Animism skill by d3 or d4. The caster can potentially regain those skill levels back but it will take time.

FWIW, your defense of Resurrection's attribute loss is making me hate it more and not less.

 

[overgeeked]

It’s always been the tension between feeling heroic as a character but also the (good) sense of danger when facing foes or challenges. It’s especially a challenge in fantasy over horror. Horror characters are supposed to feel outmatched but fantasy characters rise to the challenge. We don’t want to swat them down too easily but we also don’t want them to feel invincible.

Yeah. Dragonbane seems to want to ride the line. Sword & sorcery almost. But then there’s ducks and wolfmen. Magic is a PC option, but it’s dangerous and costly. Life is cheap. True monsters are absolutely deadly. I mean, it’s pitch perfect for me. I’m really surprised. I love a little grit without going grimdark and a little silly without going outright comedy.

ETA: But then I also love outright comedy. Can’t really stand grimdark.

 

[overgeeked]

There is no resurrection in Fabula Ultima, but to the best of my knowledge, no one is complaining. Admittedly part of the reason is because PCs can only die under certain conditions.

Yes, the player has to agree to the PC’s death. When they hit zero HP in a fight with a Villain (capital V Villain) they get to choose to surrender or sacrifice their PC in a blaze of glory that has to make the world a better place. Wildly different games and tones, hence the wildly different rules. Dragonbane is a far grittier and more chaotic. Your PC can die from a lucky crit from a peasant with a pitchfork. Between those there’s no contest. It’s Dragonbane all the way.

IMHO, a better alternative would be reducing the caster's Animism skill by d3 or d4. The caster can potentially regain those skill levels back but it will take time.

To me that renders it almost toothless.

FWIW, your defense of Resurrection's attribute loss is making me hate it more and not less.

Don’t know what to tell you. My goal isn’t to convince you it’s good. My goal is to explain why I love it. How that makes you feel is on you. To me, it’s the stuff meaty dramatic choices are made of. I eat that up.

 

[Aldarc]

Between those there’s no contest. It’s Dragonbane all the way.

It's not a some sort of competition. It's best to enjoy the separate games for what they are and what they do well.

To me that renders it almost toothless.

Regardless, I would welcome if you could present me a better alternative that would work for me given my preferences for loathing attribute loss mechanics.

 

[overgeeked]

Does anyone have Dragonzine 2? Could you provide an overview/review of the monster creation guidelines?

I’m looking through the Bestiary and and seeing some very distinct patterns. They really love their AOE fears and throwing PCs.

I really love the monster design. The 1d6 random actions is a fantastic mechanic. The text for most is really flavorful and evocative.

 

[Wolfpack48]

Does anyone have Dragonzine 2? Could you provide an overview/review of the monster creation guidelines?

I’m looking through the Bestiary and and seeing some very distinct patterns. They really love their AOE fears and throwing PCs.

I really love the monster design. The 1d6 random actions is a fantastic mechanic. The text for most is really flavorful and evocative.

I do. I’ll detail it a bit later today.

 

[Wolfpack48]

I do. I’ll detail it a bit later today.

1. Deadliness - each section has one or two tables: (1) random generation of the attribute, or (2) choice of Frightening, Terrifying or Nightmarish deadliness with a roll for the attribute at the chosen deadliness level. At any point you can just choose rather than roll
2. Size - Choose, random or deadliness level for Size
3. Ferocity - Choose, random or deadliness level for Ferocity
4. Movement - Choose or random Movement based on monster Size
5. Hit Points - Choose or random HP based on deadliness level
6. Armor - Choose, random or deadliness level for Armor Rank
7. Special Abilities - Choose or random number of Special Abilities, then choose or d100 roll for the Special Ability details. 45 abilities to choose from.
8. Monster Attacks - Create 6 Monster Attacks. For each, choose or random Attack Type. For each Attack Type choose, random or deadliness level Attack Damage. For each Attack Type with an effect, choose or d100 for Attack Effects (20 effects to choose from) and choose or random Attack Range of the effect.
9. Description - based on the results, create a description of the monster that fits its abilities. Tweak any abilities as needed.

The tables are 9 pages long with explanation for how to perform each step. At the end a complete page-long example is detailed for each step of the process and then the final monster stats are shown on the last page. Overall, it is a very clear, logical and clean system for creating your own monsters.

 

[overgeeked]

1. Deadliness - each section has one or two tables: (1) random generation of the attribute, or (2) choice of Frightening, Terrifying or Nightmarish deadliness with a roll for the attribute at the chosen deadliness level. At any point you can just choose rather than roll
2. Size - Choose, random or deadliness level for Size
3. Ferocity - Choose, random or deadliness level for Ferocity
4. Movement - Choose or random Movement based on monster Size
5. Hit Points - Choose or random HP based on deadliness level
6. Armor - Choose, random or deadliness level for Armor Rank
7. Special Abilities - Choose or random number of Special Abilities, then choose or d100 roll for the special Ability details. 45 abilities to choose from.
8. Monster Attacks - Create 6 Monster Attacks. For each, choose or random attack type. For each choose, random or deadliness level attack damage. For each attack type with an effect, choose or d100 for Attack Effects (20 effects to choose from) and choose or random range of the effect.
9. Description - based on the results, create a description of the monster that fits its abilities. Tweak any abilities as needed.

The tables are 9 pages long with explanation for how to perform each step. At the end a complete page long example is detailed for each step of the process and then the final monster stats are shown on the last page. Overall it is a very clear, logical and clean system for creating your own monsters.

Nice. That sounds fantastic. Thank you.

Any idea how closely the created monsters match the official stuff?