D&D (2024) Help Me Hate Monks (Less Than I Currently Do)

[Paul Farquhar]

Clerical prophets, cultists, mystics and evangelists would ALSO be priests of that god

No they don’t. Many religions don’t have any kind of priesthood. I think you need to look look up what “priest” means! That’s one reason people use the word cleric instead.

That background is built into the class itself

No it isn’t. There is no reason why a PC cleric would have any formal religious training. That’s why they can choose backgrounds that have nothing to do with religion. My last cleric was a sailor.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Anyone have any monastic orders you put in your game?

I haven't yet, but I have a player who is playing the first monk (mystic) in my bespoke D&D for ~8 years, with only three in the past 20. I have some issues with the class mechanically, but, weirdly, I haven't come up with different orders yet. I'll have to get on that.

My temples, magical orders, fighting guilds, druid circles, &c., are many, but haven't given much thought to monks yet.

Mechanically, I make take some inspiration from a few third party interpretations of the monk. Arcana Unearthed had the Oathsworn, inspired by the Bloodguard from the Thomas Covenant stories. Midnight had the Brawler, quite handy when weapons are forbidden. ACKS has the Mystic, inspired by the Bene Gesseret from Dune. Plus there's what inspiration you can glean from Avatar; I think element bending is a great theming element (heh). I do appreciate 5e's use of "focus" as a defining mechanic. Might use that to refine my class, although I might call it "vril".

I would argue Paladin comes up as often as cleric -- if you hear someone say "cleric" in conversation, chances are they're talking D&D.

Actually, a friend of mine is an Episcopal priest. She refers to herself as a "cleric" all the time.
She does not refer to herself as a "priestess", however. That gets you the frown of judgement.

 

[RealAlHazred]

Actually, a friend of mine is an Episcopal priest. She refers to herself as a "cleric" all the time.
She does not refer to herself as a "priestess", however. That gets you the frown of judgement.

sigh Another AD&D 2nd edition hater, I see...

 

[Bedrockgames]

sigh Another AD&D 2nd edition hater, I see...

Episcopalians love second edition almost as much as Catholics love 1st edition

 

[Bill Zebub]

I started what I hoped would be a fun thread where we could discuss different orders or even types of monks for D&D. I regret starting this thread.

I (briefly) played a monk, eventually a kensai, who referred to herself as a "swordswoman" not a monk. She started off as a novice with a wooden sword (translation: quarterstaff) but after she had attained some level of mastery (translation: 3rd level) her master granted her a real longsword.

She understood that there was a mystical side to the discipline, and slowly as she gained levels (I only got her to 4th level, unfortunately) she was increasingly able to tap into those abilities.

Mastering her weapon was all she cared about. Treasure, fine food, comfort...those things were just distractions to her study.

 

[Maxperson]

No they don’t. Many religions don’t have any kind of priesthood. I think you need to look look up what “priest” means! That’s one reason people use the word cleric instead.


No it isn’t. There is no reason why a PC cleric would have any formal religious training. That’s why they can choose backgrounds that have nothing to do with religion. My last cleric was a sailor.

There's a reason why I said "How D&D uses the term priest." D&D equates priest and cleric.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There's a reason why I said "How D&D uses the term priest." D&D equates priest and cleric.

No it doesn't. In D&D "priest" is not a game term (at least not in the current edition). It is used in it's real world sense: someone who serves as an intermediary between gods and mortals. A cleric (class) may or may not be an in game priest.

 

[RealAlHazred]

No it doesn't. In D&D "priest" is not a game term (at least not in the current edition). It is used in it's real world sense: someone who serves as an intermediary between gods and mortals. A cleric (class) may or may not be an in game priest.

Among the many vast improvements to the game provided by 2nd edition, clerics were renamed "priests," devils were renamed "baatezu," and demons were renamed "tanar'ri".

 

[Maxperson]

No it doesn't. In D&D "priest" is not a game term (at least not in the current edition). It is used in it's real world sense: someone who serves as an intermediary between gods and mortals. A cleric (class) may or may not be an in game priest.

This is incorrect.

The 5e DMG even shows as an example background, priests of a god who are just beggars supported by the population. No formal religion at all. No temples. Just a bunch of individual beggar priests. Such priests would either come to the religion on their own, or be taught by a single individual.

5e explicitly says priests can be cultists. Cultists who YOU said weren't priests by the real world definition.

"Typical Cultist: Acolyte, archmage, bandit captain, cult fanatic, cultist, knight, noble, priest, spy"

The Kraken Priests in Volo's are not an organized priesthood, but individuals who venerate the kraken and become priests who are clerics.

In 5e druids can come to be druids in a variety of ways, some as individuals with no formal training or religion, and yet druids are considered to be priests of the old faith.

In 2e the category for clerics and druids was priests and every god and their mother had priests, whether they had a formal priesthood or not.

In D&D priest and cleric are synonymous. The D&D definition is different from the real world definition.

 

[RealAlHazred]

In D&D priest and cleric are synonymous. The D&D definition is different from the real world definition.

Speaking seriously, I don't know that this is 100% correct. A player who wants to play a priest will generally build a cleric, but the game doesn't specify that you must. And NPCs are not built like player characters, and, while they may have powers derived from PC class abilities, they do not have levels in that class. In the adventure Princes of the Apocalypse, most of the priests of the Elemental Princes' cults are given powers reminiscent of sorcerers, for example -- Charisma-based spellcasting, a defined list of powers, etc. Therefore, I don't think you can definitively say, "priest and cleric are synonymous." The priest stat block says they have cleric spells, but I can make a bard with cleric spells -- does that make my bard PC a cleric?